View Poll Results: What's worse...

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  • European imperialism

    11 24.44%
  • Islamic imperialism

    15 33.33%
  • Both are roughly equivalent

    12 26.67%
  • Other - please specify

    7 15.56%
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Thread: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

  1. #1
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    What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    O.K. I'm starting this thread because we often hear in discussions about Islamist terrorism how European colonialism is the cause thereof, however, what is often overlooked (or even largely unknown) is that Islam has infacted engaged in imperialist expansionism on just as large a scale as the European powers, and what's more, unlike European colonialism, Islamic occupation of the lands they conquered has become permanent through systematic genocide and arabization programs against the native peoples.

    For example one of (if not the largest) genocides in human history was perpetrated by the Muslim imperialists in the Indian subcontinent, estimates assert that the Indian population declined by 80 million people under Islamic rule.

    Koenraad Elst quotes Professor K.S. Lal's "Growth of Muslim population in India", who writes that according to his calculations, the Hindu population decreased by 8O MILLION between the year 1000 and 1525. INDEED PROBABLY THE BIGGEST HOLOCAUST IN THE WHOLE WORLD HISTORY. (Negat.34)

    80 million Hindus massacred by Muslims. The West is next.
    These were not all the result of disease like in the Americas this was the result of a systematic genocide in which all non-Muslims were either killed, converted, or subjugated as dhimmi third class citizens under the 20 humiliations. One example is the murder of 100 thousand prisoners by the Shah Timur as recorded by Timur himself:

    Timur himself recorded the invasions in his memoirs, collectively known as Tuzk-i-Timuri.[21] In them, he vividly described the massacre at Delhi:

    In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers. They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground....All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death.

    One hundred thousand infidels, impious idolators, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiruddin Umar, a counselor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives....on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and enemies of Islam at liberty...no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword.[22]

    According to Malfuzat-i-Timuri,[23] Timur targeted Hindus. In his own words, "Excepting the quarter of the saiyids, the 'ulama and the other Musalmans [sic], the whole city was sacked". In his descriptions of the Loni massacre he wrote, "..Next day I gave orders that the Musalman prisoners should be separated and saved."

    Persecution of Hindus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In fact the Hindus got off lucky that they could become dhimmis under the Hanafite school of Islamic jurisprudence, because under all other schools of Sharia dhimmi status was reserved only for Christians and Jews.

    Furthermore; this occupation and oppression continues to this very day, half of India has been permanently colonized by dar al-Islam IE Pakistan which even in the continues the genocide of Hindus that the Sultans started eg between 300 hundred thousand and 3 million Hindus were killed in 1971 during operation searchlight in Bangladesh.

    1971 Bangladesh atrocities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    With the recent terrorist attacks in India allthough tragic it is important to remeber that it is only part of a larger picture and a drop in the bucket compared with the ongoing Islamist genocide and occupation of the Indian subcontinent. And this is only a single region in the global jihadist grand strategy of bringing the entire world into the fold of dar al-Islam through offensive Jihad eg Umayyad Conquest of North Africa which started in around 600 A.D. the conquest of Hispania which occurred in the 700's, and the invasions of Southern Italy which occurred in the 800's, the crusades didn't start until 1000 AD.

    The Rashidun first in engaged in the unprovoked war of aggression against the Zoroastrian Sassanid Empire of Persia they conquered Persia and Mesopotamia between 633 and 656, they then conquered Syria in 637, then they conquered Armenia in 639, then they conquered Egypt in 639, then they conquered North Africa in 652.

    Under the Umayyads they finished their conquest of North Africa in 665, then between 662 and 709 they conquered Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and southwest Kazakhstan, then between 664 and 712 they conquered the Indian sub-continent, then between 711 and 718 they conquered the Iberian Peninsula of Hispania, they then laid siege to Constantinople between 717 and 718, then between 711 and 750 they conquered the Caucasus, they then conquered Tbilisi in 736, and they then conquered southern Italy in 827.

    And there's more, one often hears about the evils of the European slave trade, however, how many people have ever heard of the Arab slave trade which was just as long lasting and larger in scale than the European slave trade. It is estimated that the Arabs traded between 11 and 18 million slaves between 650 AD and 1900 AD compared to the estimates of 9.4 to 14 million slaves traded in the transatlantic slave trade.

    Approximately 18,000,000 Africans were delivered into the Islamic trans-Saharan and Indian Ocean slave trades between 650 and 1905.
    Welcome to Encyclopdia Britannica's Guide to Black History
    Slavery in the east

    Between 1450 and 1850 at least 12 million Africans were taken across the notorious Middle Passage of the Atlantic - mainly to colonies in North America, South America, and the West Indies.

    However, Europe did not have a monopoly on slavery. Muslim traders also exported as many as 17 million slaves to the coast of the Indian Ocean, the Middle East, and North Africa.
    BBC News | AFRICA | Focus on the slave trade
    Over time, sub-Saharan Africa became the principal source of involuntary labor. Muslims were not the first people to enslave black Africans -- the ancient Egyptians had done it -- but they were the first to engage in it systematically on a massive scale. Going back to Islam's birth in the 7th century, historian Raymond Mauvy estimates that 14 million black slaves have been sold to Muslims. (This compares to Paul E. Lovejoy's estimate of 10 to 11 million Africans shipped in chains to the Western Hemisphere between 1650 and 1900; the vast majority of them were sent to Latin America and the Caribbean, and half a million to British North America and the U.S.)
    The Unknown Slavery: In the Muslim world, that is — and it's not over | National Review | Find Articles at BNET
    How many people were enslaved?

    A database compiled in the late 1990s put the figure for the transatlantic slave trade at more than 11 million people, but numbers are still contested.

    The total number taken from eastern Africa and enslaved in the Arab world is considered to be between 9.4 and 14 million. The figures are uncertain due to the lack of written records.
    BBC NEWS | Africa | Quick guide: The slave trade
    So the next time you hear someone making excuses for Islamist terorist attacks by labeling it as a response to persecution at the hands of the evil imperialist west, you can respond that this is not the result of European imperialism and foreign policy but in fact is simply an extension of Islamic Imperialism which has been occurring unabaited for more than one and a half millenia.

    "Yes, 'imperialism,' ... The deliberate and determined expansion of militant Islam and its attempt to triumph not only in the Islamic world but in Europe and North America. Pure ideology. Muslim terrorists kill and slaughter not because of what they experience but because of what they believe." -- Tawfik Hamid
    Last edited by jin1776; 11-29-08 at 02:24 PM.

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Can a mod please add a poll option?

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Moderator's Warning:
    What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?Poll added to thread

    אשכנזי היהודי • Белый Россию

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    V I Lenin, Imperialism: The Highest Stage of Capitalism, International Publishers, New York, 1997
    Islamic Country aren't capitalism , so there is no imperialism , even if anyone said so , its not true .

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Islamic Country aren't capitalism , so there is no imperialism , even if anyone said so , its not true .
    Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism. It has to do with 'empire'.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Imperialism has nothing to do with capitalism. It has to do with 'empire'.
    Its not only my saying ,,

    Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    How many continents were essentially destroyed by Islamic imperialism? How many cultures simply disappeared? You can't really compare the two, but I just put down 'roughly equivalent".
    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    Heh. Do you realize how many children I'd murder to be immortal and have an army of willing slaves?

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways View Post
    How many continents were essentially destroyed by Islamic imperialism? How many cultures simply disappeared? You can't really compare the two, but I just put down 'roughly equivalent".
    state some facts please , I doubt your saying .

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Ah yes Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, Father of COMMUNIST RUSSIA as proof that Imperialism is the final stage of Capitalism. What's next? The KKK's manifesto as proof that the South wasn't pissed off because they weren't going to be allowed to have slaves anymore? Ahmed. Please stop. The rantings of a communist are not to be taken into consideration when one considers the iron grip Russia had on it's satellites.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-30-08 at 04:51 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    state some facts please , I doubt your saying .
    Growth of the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Suleiman the Magnificent first put down a revolt led by the Ottoman-appointed governor in Damascus. By August, 1521, Suleiman had completed the conquest of Serbia capturing the city of Belgrade. In 1522, Suleiman captured Rhodes. On August 29, 1526 Suleiman defeated Louis II of Hungary at the Battle of Mohács, and set up Ottoman rule in Hungary. By 1541, Suleiman controlled most of present-day Hungary, known as the Great Alföld, and installed Zápolya's family as rulers of the independent principality of Transylvania, a vassal state of the Empire. (Walachia and Moldavia also became tributary principalities of the Ottoman Empire.) Ferdinand I, Holy Roman Emperor claimed the so-called "Royal Hungary" (present-day Slovakia, North-Western Hungary and western Croatia), a territory which temporarily fixed the border between the Habsburgs and the Ottomans.

    The Shi'ite Safavid Empire ruled Persia and modern-day Iraq. Suleiman waged three campaigns against the Safavids; in the earliest, the historically important city of Baghdad fell to Suleiman's forces in 1534. The second campaign, 1548-1549, resulted in temporary Ottoman gains in Tabriz and Azerbaijan, a lasting presence in the province of Van, and some forts in Georgia. In his third campaign, in 1555, Suleiman's forces failed to eliminate the Shah's army, which withdrew into the mountains of Luristan, and eventually signed a treaty at Amasya, in which the Shah recognized the existing borders and promised to end his raids into Ottoman territory. Huge territories of North Africa up to west of algeria were annexed. The Barbary States of Tripolitania, Tunisia, Algeria (and in 1553 a portion of Morocco's coastline) became autonomous provinces of the Empire. The piracy carried on thereafter by the Barbary pirates of North Africa remained part of the wars against Spain, and the Ottoman expansion was associated with naval dominance for a short period in the Mediterranean Sea.
    Osman II

    Osman II after securing the Empire's eastern border by signing a peace treaty with Safavid Iran, he personally led the Ottoman invasion of Poland during the Moldavian Magnate Wars. Forced to sign a peace treaty with the Polish after the Battle of Chotin (Chocim) (in fact siege of Chotin by the Polish hetman Jan Chodkiewicz) in September-October, 1621, Osman II returned home to Istanbul in shame, blaming the cowardice of the Janissaries and the insufficiency of his statesmen for his humiliation.

    [edit] Murad IV

    Murad IV was the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire from 1623 to 1640, known both for restoring the authority of the state and for the brutality of his methods. Murad IV's reign is most notable for a war against Persia in which Ottoman forces conquered Azerbaijan, occupied Tabriz, Hamadan, and, in the last great feat of Imperial Ottoman arms, captured Baghdad in 1638. Murad IV himself commanded the invasion of Mesopotamia and proved to be an outstanding field commander.
    Dude seriously.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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