View Poll Results: What's worse...

Voters
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  • European imperialism

    11 24.44%
  • Islamic imperialism

    15 33.33%
  • Both are roughly equivalent

    12 26.67%
  • Other - please specify

    7 15.56%
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Thread: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

  1. #81
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinghour View Post
    It appears you want to cling to one definition, or part of one, while ignoring all other definitions and denying that imperialism can evolve over time. I did notice, though, that the definition you gave above fits quite well with what we did throughout the 20th century, and even up to the present: "or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas broadly the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence". This is a more subtle and palatable way of doing things in the era of the UN, much like Fabian Socialism is more palatable than full on Socialism. It is also much more effective and more affordable, even though it will eventually help bring about the end of our hegemony.
    The only one "clinging" here is you clinging to the absurd notion that our policies are Imperialistic.

    My mom told me not to play with people in debate forums that make up their own realities. She said they are delusional and will only try to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

    Carry on!

  2. #82
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Good lord Right, if you have to ask, I am going to CHANGE my answer. YES, it starts with an "a" and ends with a "d".



    Never can be sure with you TD
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

  3. #83
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post


    Never can be sure with you TD
    Okay that's it starts with an "r" and ends with an "r".

  4. #84
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The only one "clinging" here is you clinging to the absurd notion that our policies are Imperialistic.

    My mom told me not to play with people in debate forums that make up their own realities. She said they are delusional and will only try to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

    Carry on!
    Goodness, you just ignored the last half of your definition and accused me of making up realities. Perhaps you'd like to edit your post and delete that portion of the definition.

  5. #85
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinghour View Post
    Imperialism often refers to empire in the sense of grabbing territory, but it can also refer to political/social superiority.
    No actually it doesn't that only applies to made up definitions of imperialism created specifically to allow the United States to fall into the category.

    I look at our imperialism as a mix of the two. We subscribe to American exceptionalism, and that's where our political/social superiority comes from. We tell other nations what kinds of weapons they can have, and how many, as if we automatically have that authority.
    That's called economic and military global hegemony, one can have global hegemony and maintain the status of republic, just look at the Roman republic.

    We use the CIA to overthrow governments and install leaders that will do our bidding at that time,
    And empires rule directly through governers, and it's only been shown that the U.S. aided in the overthrow of governments twice, once with Arbenz in Guatemala and once in Iran with Mossadeq, however, the latter was a countercoup as under the Constitutional monarchy of Iran the Shah was the legitimate head of state, it was Mossadeq who tried to overthrow the Iranian Constitutional monarchy by dissolving parliament through a fraudulent referendum when the Majilis refused to grant him direct control over the military.

    even though that leader may be a devil to his subjects. And we put bases all over the world and station our soldiers there,
    Lol empires don't have bases in foreign lands only with the expressed consent of the sovereign power. There is not one U.S. military base in which we don't have the permission of the sovereign to be there.

    for we are without a doubt the world's police. The current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of this hybrid imperialism.
    lmfao empires wouldn't be setting up constitutional republics they would be establishing governates under their direct control.

    We lied to get in,
    No we didn't, the Taliban aided in the murder of 3000 of our citizens and Saddam was in material breach of the ceasefire for more than a decade, he had WMD programs, and he was cooperating with terrorists to attack U.S. interests including with AQ affiliates according to the Pentagon review of the DOCEX release.

    we took out the unfavorable party (in Iraq at least), and put in a puppet government.
    Now you're just lying through your damn teeth, we established a Constitutional Republic of, by, and for the Iraqi people, the Iraqi people created their own government in a Constitutional national referendum and national election which were certified as free and fair by international observers, can you name me one empire in the history of the world that granted their conquered territorial client states their natural rights to popular sovereignt and self determination under Constitutional democratic republicanism? I don't think so!

    And there will be something like eight bases there for the foreseeable future, and a huge embassy to boot.
    And when has the dually elected government of Iraq requested that we completely withdrawal and not have this embassy there? Call me when we establish our governate.

    We are everywhere, and we are ever expanding.
    Global Hegemon =/= Empire.

    As for violating the Constitution, there are myriad examples of this, especially from Lincoln onward. A different discussion thread would be needed to discuss that.
    No you made the assertion in this thread so you can list some of these myriad examples here.

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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    hh , I dont give a sh*t for your opinion , your sight about that Expansion that they are atrocities is so expected from a person who is Resentful about the religion .



    dont give a damn too , I fully believe that my religion are innocent from that BS , and I live in peace with my dhimmi homies .
    the last thing i need to hear is an Athiest opinion about me or my religion .
    Well then you're living in a state of denial.

  7. #87
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinghour View Post
    It appears you want to cling to one definition, or part of one, while ignoring all other definitions and denying that imperialism can evolve over time. I did notice, though, that the definition you gave above fits quite well with what we did throughout the 20th century, and even up to the present: "or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas broadly the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence". This is a more subtle and palatable way of doing things in the era of the UN,
    There are only two modern examples in which the U.S. indirectly obtained control through our support of coups IE Arbenz in Guatemala and Mossadeq in Iran, and as I said in the case of the latter it was a countercoup and in the case of the former today Guatemala is a free liberal democracy.

  8. #88
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    Emulating Virtue

    "Emulating Virtue"
    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    He is a servant of Satan by leading people away from accepting Christ as God and their only path to paradise, according to the (correct by your standards) majority.
    Muhammad was a giver of laws and taditions to the Quraysh tribe, for the city state of hejaz, for the preservation of the patriarchal lineage of ishmael.
    Similarly, moses was a giver of laws and traditions to the Israeli tribe, for the city state of israel, for the preservation of the patriarchal lineage of isaac.
    Quote Originally Posted by RightOfCenter View Post
    The doctrine of the Christian church is that only through accepting Jesus as God can one achieve eternal life in Paradise. Do Muslims accept Jesus as God?
    If you wish to discuss the parallels between exodus, whereby the blood of the sacrificed spring lamb was used to mark the doorposts by those who did so as an act of faith which allowed judgement to pass over ("passover") even the guilty so that the isreali people may be redeemed from slavery, and christianity, which asserts that the blood of jesus sacrificed in situ with the pascal tradition may be adorned through faith so that mankind may be redeemed from slavery, so be it.

    Anecdotally, non israelis and ishmaelis are only obligated to the seven laws of noah, according to abrahamic tradition.

    But rest assured, the metaphorical meaning of a chance at eternal life is the perpetuity of one's genetic identity and that is the conjectural basis of religion for obedience to the law and for renunciation of ruinous behaviors.

    Figuratively, "God" is synonymous with an idealized virtue, often consistent with sacrifice in the life death cycle.

    As someone fated with the consequences of natural law resultant from orchestrated events, a ritual invokes orders even without (or with) a reanimation of the body.

    As an anthropoligal realist, other religions and philosophies lend themselves to ethnic preservation and equitable cultural success.
    Last edited by Monk-Eye; 12-03-08 at 08:57 PM.

  9. #89
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Your vote options don't represent the real situation.
    Europe doesn't seem to control any other groups at
    this time.

    My guess is that most humans oppose imperialism
    (supremacy) of any kind.

  10. #90
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by lawshume View Post
    Your vote options don't represent the real situation.
    Europe doesn't seem to control any other groups at
    this time.

    My guess is that most humans oppose imperialism
    (supremacy) of any kind.
    I was including historical European Imperialism, feel free to include things which you might consider "western imperialism".

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