View Poll Results: What's worse...

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  • European imperialism

    11 24.44%
  • Islamic imperialism

    15 33.33%
  • Both are roughly equivalent

    12 26.67%
  • Other - please specify

    7 15.56%
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Thread: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

  1. #101
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    Tat is a completely dishonest misrepesntation of the Pentagon's findings the Pentagon Review of the DOCEX release entitled the "Iraqi Perspectives Project, Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents (Redacted)," demonstrates that Iraq was in fact collaborating with Islamist extremists (including AQ affilliates) and actively working with them to attack the U.S.:

    Here's a link to the full report the pertinent information is located in the first volume of this five volume DOCEX:

    Iraqi Perspectives Project: Saddam and Terrorism

    Here's a rather telling document from DOCEX which shows how Saddam was recruiting suicide volunteers right up until at least 2001 to attack U.S. interests:

    Not to mention the fact that Saddam had fired on our aircraft in the no-fly zone on an almost daily basis, was in material breach of numerous U.N. resolutions, was in fact harboring AQ operatives who had attacked the U.S. on our own soil, and had even once attempted to assasinate our former head of state one George Herbert Walker Bush.

    Bull**** the Iraqi Constitution was written by the Iraqi's and that Constitution was ratified by the Iraqi people in a nation wide referendum.

    Prove that the U.S. encroached on the writing of the Iraqi Constitution or that we did anything to make the elections anything less than free and fair.

    It's called representative democracy not direct democracy, the dually elected represenatives of the Iraqi people have not demanded our withdrawal, however, we have come to an agreement whereby U.S. troops have to be out by I believe 2011.

    We were bound by treaty.

    There was an AUMF which tantamount to a declaration of war as the Constitution does not specify what type of legislation the Congress must write.

    Both had an AUMF.

    Aumf

    True he did not have congressional authorization, we were not bound by treaty, and they were not limited engagements.

    That was a limited engagement, did the U.S. require a formal declaration of war for the quasi-war with the French under John Adams? Was one of our Founding Fathers an imperialist?

    Cuba did not involve U.S. troops.
    Jin, although your arguments and facts fall on deaf ears, I just wanted you to know that you are a welcome addition to the forum and I applaud your patience with those who prefer to wallow in denial.


  2. #102
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    Tat is a completely dishonest misrepesntation of the Pentagon's findings the Pentagon Review of the DOCEX release entitled the "Iraqi Perspectives Project, Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents (Redacted)," demonstrates that Iraq was in fact collaborating with Islamist extremists (including AQ affilliates) and actively working with them to attack the U.S.:

    ....
    Hi Tot, how have you been?

    Still up to your old tricks about citing bull**** sources?


    Stoll characterized the Sun's political orientation as "right-of-center,"[5] and an associate of Conrad Black predicted in 2002 that the paper would be "certainly neoconservative in its views."[6] Editor-in-chief Lipsky described the agenda of the paper's prominent op-ed page as "limited government, individual liberty, constitutional fundamentals, equality under the law, economic growth ... standards in literature and culture, education."[7] The Sun's roster of columnists included many prominent conservative and neoconservative pundits, including William F. Buckley, Jr., Michael Barone, Daniel Pipes, and Mark Steyn.

    The Sun was "known for its pugnacious coverage of Jewish-related issues";[8] in particular, it was "a strong proponent of Israel's right to defend itself."[5] It published articles by pro-Israel reporter Aaron Klein.

    The paper courted controversy in 2003 with an unsigned February 6 editorial arguing that protestors against the Iraq war should be prosecuted for treason.[9][10]


    The New York Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know it may sound partisan, but I'd tend to question the objectiveness and credibility of a source that argues that protestors against the Iraq war should be prosecuted for treason. Seems to suggest just a tad of bias to me.

    But that never slowed you down.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 12-04-08 at 03:00 PM.

  3. #103
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I see you are also an EXPERT at deflection; I bow at your superior forum skills.

    Heh heh - Tot is a master of making arguments based on dubious neocon sources like the New York Sun. The Weekly Standard is another of his favorites, along with FreeRepublic.com and Foxnews.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 12-04-08 at 03:22 PM.

  4. #104
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iriemon View Post
    Hi Tot, how have you been?

    Still up to your old tricks about citing bull**** sources?


    Stoll characterized the Sun's political orientation as "right-of-center,"[5] and an associate of Conrad Black predicted in 2002 that the paper would be "certainly neoconservative in its views."[6] Editor-in-chief Lipsky described the agenda of the paper's prominent op-ed page as "limited government, individual liberty, constitutional fundamentals, equality under the law, economic growth ... standards in literature and culture, education."[7] The Sun's roster of columnists included many prominent conservative and neoconservative pundits, including William F. Buckley, Jr., Michael Barone, Daniel Pipes, and Mark Steyn.

    The Sun was "known for its pugnacious coverage of Jewish-related issues";[8] in particular, it was "a strong proponent of Israel's right to defend itself."[5] It published articles by pro-Israel reporter Aaron Klein.

    The paper courted controversy in 2003 with an unsigned February 6 editorial arguing that protestors against the Iraq war should be prosecuted for treason.[9][10]


    The New York Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know it may sound partisan, but I'd tend to question the objectiveness and credibility of a source that argues that protestors against the Iraq war should be prosecuted for treason. Seems to suggest just a tad of bias to me.

    But that never slowed you down.
    Ad-hom much? Regardless that is precisely why I provided the Pentagon report in full, the pertinent information is located in the first volume of this five volume DOCEX:

    Iraqi Perspectives Project: Saddam and Terrorism

    And what the hell is a "Tot"???

  5. #105
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Christians doesnt reject my existance , but they object your existance ..
    Yes they do.



    all my respect to thier tenet , and am sure they do respect mine .
    Just because they don't tax you to allow you to do it like you do to the dhimmis doesn't mean they respect it.




    your political opinion is so respected here , but no the religous one .
    The majority of people here are Christians neither is yours.


    I came here to discuss politics , until some Athiest came and offended me , so I must had responsed .
    When you say things like "the majority is always right" you deserve to be offended.




    no it is , why do they call it POLL then , like the one up there ..
    Majority's opinion is the only thing that makes you think and discuss
    The dominant idea on this forum is discussion of view points. Simply because more people believe it does not make it correct.


    yeah , I see , every post you write same sayings : (Jesus is God , your religion is wrong) ....
    And since, as you said, the majority is always right that makes you wrong.



    Actually , oncs I'd asked myself many questions : who created the world , planets , solar system , angels , devils , soul , atoms , cells and all the Paranormal things that we discovered or we haven't yet ..
    and I found only one answer : God .
    If you got another answer tell me .
    You're first mistake was believing in paranormal things.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWM
    I never thought infanticide could be so delicious.

  6. #106
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Shaheen View Post
    Christians never said that Islam or any religion dont exist , as long as we believe in God , Athiest go away .

    and i dont think your small brain recognised that Iam not talking about the majority's religion , am talking about the majority's OPINION , which says that Athiest has no place in the society .
    Wow. Just... wow.

    Ahmed, what happened to that sweet, curious person I met here just a few short weeks ago? Where did this intolerance, this cruelty come from? I'm so disappointed in you.

    You say athiests have no place in society.

    You are aware, of course, that a very large percentage, perhaps even the majority, of Western Europeans are atheist? Millions and millions of them. There are millions of American atheists who simply do not believe in "god" or "gods". Do you honestly believe that they have no right to live on this earth, exist in society?

    Where, exactly, would people who do not believe in an invisible diety in the sky belong? Would you drive them from their homes... to where? Would you simply execute them?

    Would you execute me?

    Tolerance requires acceptance of those who believe differently than you. If you do not have tolerance, then you cannot accept those who are different. That kind of intolerance breeds the hatred you've expressed in this thread. And we all know what hatred breeds... war, murder, violence and blood.

  7. #107
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    Ad-hom much? Regardless that is precisely why I provided the Pentagon report in full, the pertinent information is located in the first volume of this five volume DOCEX:

    Iraqi Perspectives Project: Saddam and Terrorism

    I can't upload a 45 meg file.

    But your source to a neocon right wing (and now defunct) paper that claimed all those who didn't support the Iraq war were traitors was about all I need to know about your arguments, and you.

    And what the hell is a "Tot"???
    Tot? Oh, he was a former poster, who used to make long, ridiculous arguments based on citations to the most unreliable, biased sources.

    He was regularly shown to be a flat out liar and a racist bigot, and complete idiot by many who post here. Most everyone realized he was a tool, and his stupid arguments were easily shown to be wrong, illogical, and easily contradicted by credible sources.

    The fact that he was regularly exposed and his drivel was rebutted drove him to infantile tantrums where he'd rant and whine and flame and call people names and berate people, like the little spoiled child he was. He was eventually banned for it, way too long in the waiting IMO.

    He still comes around and posts, until he is exposed. He uses different names, like Jin1776.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 12-05-08 at 10:23 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Irienmon
    I can't upload a 45 meg file.
    You can't download a pdf? Ya sure.

    But your source to a neocon right wing (and now defunct) paper that claimed all those who didn't support the Iraq war were traitors was about all I need to know about your arguments, and you.
    I provided the source in full, that is the citation on the pentagon report in wiki, you refuse to accept the facts when they are presented to you and backed up with the primary sources, that tells me everything I need to know about you. Oh and FYI your dismissal of my secondary source based on what a different columnist may have said is both an ad-hominem logical fallacy and a guilt by association logical fallacy and not a valid rebuttal for any debater worth his salt.
    Last edited by jin1776; 12-05-08 at 02:33 PM.

  9. #109
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by jin1776 View Post
    You can't download a pdf? Ya sure.
    Not a 45 meg one.

    I provided the source in full, that is the citation on the pentagon report in wiki, you refuse to accept the facts when they are presented to you and backed up with the primary sources, that tells me everything I need to know about you. Oh and FYI your dismissal of my secondary source based on what a different columnist may have said is both an ad-hominem logical fallacy and a guilt by association logical fallacy and not a valid rebuttal for any debater worth his salt.
    Tot, again resorting to the same old "ad-homimem" argument whenever someone points out one of your ridiculously biased sources?

    By the way, weren't you going to go to Iraq? and how's the drinking problem?

    And since you referenced Wiki, here's what Wiki said:

    In March 2008, a Pentagon-sponsored study was released, entitled Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents, based on the review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents captured after the 2003 US invasion. The study "found no 'smoking gun' (i.e., direct connection) between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda."[95] It did note that in the early 1990s "Saddam supported groups that either associated directly with al Qaeda (such as the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, led at one time by bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri) or that generally shared al Qaeda’s stated goals and objectives."[96]

    The report goes on to point out that while both Saddam and al-Qaeda had a common enemy in the United States, "the similarities ended there: bin Laden wanted - and still wants - to restore the Islamic caliphate while Saddam, despite his later Islamic rhetoric, dreamed more narrowly of being the secular ruler of a united Arab nation. These competing visions made any significant long-term compromise between them highly unlikely. After all, to the fundamentalist leadership of al Qaeda, Saddam represented the worst kind of "apostate" regime - a secular police state well practiced in suppressing internal challenges."


    Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sure demonstrates how smart it was to go after Iraq after we were hit by AQ. Do your enemy a favor by taking down one of its foes.
    Last edited by Iriemon; 12-05-08 at 04:45 PM.

  10. #110
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    Re: What's worse European Imperialism or Islamic Imperialism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I see you are also an EXPERT at deflection; I bow at your superior forum skills.

    A second gen Go5 giving homage to an founding member. Kind of gets me right there.

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