View Poll Results: Should Capital Punishment be supported?

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  • It should be supported in both principle and practice.

    43 47.78%
  • Yes in principle, but not in practice due to the ambiguity of social bias.

    14 15.56%
  • It should be opposed both in principle and practice.

    33 36.67%
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Thread: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

  1. #21
    User AKLee's Avatar
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    I support the principle, but having seen numerous reports that Life imprisonment is cheaper, I am opposed to it on economic factors only

    not to mention life in prison is horrible, thats a bonus
    Very true, the same article I mentioned earlier had something of that consistency. The numbers I have here in this book are subjective, it appears that in 2004, the average cost of capital cases, from arrest to execution was US$4 million while life imprisonment without parole costs US$500,000. The numbers are subjective, but the gist is the same.

    Sources: Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole?
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  2. #22
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    Opting Out

    "Opting Out"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    IMO, the government should not be killing it's citizens for any reason. The only logical reason for capital punishment is as revenge. The Government is not in the revenge business.
    Presume a right to life: one for the victim, and one for the perpetrator.
    When the perpetrator removes the right to life for the victim, in double entendre, the right to life for the perpetrator is removed.
    The argument is procedural, not revenge.

    It is given that it is more expensive to implement the death penalty than to implement life in prison.
    Yet, death penalty proponents are forsaken resolve.
    Death penalty proponents would feel more at ease if life in prison meant until death, without parole.

    It is sometimes said, "A miserable life is better than no life at all."
    It is sometimes said, "The best revenge is living well."

    If the perpetrator is able to conclude that "A miserable life is better than no life at all.", the perpetrator still retains "The best revenge of living well."

    Yet, that is often the condition the non-death penalty proponents offer -- a prison system of earned priviledges.
    Why else would death row inmates fight so hard to stay alive, if prison were not a sufferable lifestyle?

  3. #23
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    Re: Opting Out

    always enjoy your posts
    and i think i even understood this one

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  4. #24
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    Re: Opting Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk-Eye View Post
    "Opting Out"
    Presume a right to life: one for the victim, and one for the perpetrator.
    When the perpetrator removes the right to life for the victim, in double entendre, the right to life for the perpetrator is removed.
    The argument is procedural, not revenge.

    It is given that it is more expensive to implement the death penalty than to implement life in prison.
    Yet, death penalty proponents are forsaken resolve.
    Death penalty proponents would feel more at ease if life in prison meant until death, without parole.

    It is sometimes said, "A miserable life is better than no life at all."
    It is sometimes said, "The best revenge is living well."

    If the perpetrator is able to conclude that "A miserable life is better than no life at all.", the perpetrator still retains "The best revenge of living well."

    Yet, that is often the condition the non-death penalty proponents offer -- a prison system of earned priviledges.
    Why else would death row inmates fight so hard to stay alive, if prison were not a sufferable lifestyle?

    Very valid point - the concept that the criminal forfeits his civil liberty the moment he takes away another's. Then again, that is not entirely true; the rights of said criminal are at the hands of the judiciary system to dispose of or to reinstate, depending on the intended outcome. Think about this: how will a state portray itself if it immediately considers a murder as a forfeit of one's life? It gives an undesirable image, a society that shoots to kill without the slightest bit of slack to cut. Just an idea.
    "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil."
    - Socrates, Phædo 91

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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    I tend to agree with the principle that executions are acceptable. Some people are more trouble than they are worth keeping alive. Wiping the life can wipe the problem. It depends on the particulars. However, I have problems with both camps about the death penalty. Death penalty proponents tend to annoy me when they start blabbering about "justice for the victim" blah blah blah. I do not support the principle because of the revenge. Death penalty antagonists tend to annoy me with semi-pacifism.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKLee View Post
    Okay then, why not a life sentence as an alternative to all crimes that warrant capital punishment.
    As I said in another post. Sorry Jimmy's family and friends not only did this scumbag kill little Jimmy, now you get to support this scumbag for the rest of his life, you get to pay for that scumbag's medical care, food, housing, library, rat lawyer that may try to help him weasel out of his punishment, sex change operation(in some states), weight room, security and other things." Its seems like adding insult to injury to the victims,the victim's loved ones and other honest law abiding citizens forcing them to basically support those scum for the rest of their lives behind bars.


    Do you see no hypocrisy in the system here?
    For it to be hypocritical the scumbag on death row would have to be innocent like his victim.

    Levels of social tolerance toward certain issues are changing every single day; in 1607, the persecution of people of Sub Saharan African descent as slaves were seen as something tolerable. The maltreatment of a black man then would not warrant as heavy a punishment as it would have now. Then, who are you to say that we got it right this time?
    Those are not related to capital punishment of today.


    Why prosecute criminals on the basis of contemporary social boundaries,
    You think things like murder, treason, and other heinous crimes are contemporary social boundaries?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #27
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
    I tend to agree with the principle that executions are acceptable. Some people are more trouble than they are worth keeping alive. Wiping the life can wipe the problem. It depends on the particulars. However, I have problems with both camps about the death penalty. Death penalty proponents tend to annoy me when they start blabbering about "justice for the victim" blah blah blah. I do not support the principle because of the revenge. Death penalty antagonists tend to annoy me with semi-pacifism.
    I'm a non-pacifist death penalty opponent. Yeah, we should avoid war whenever possible via diplomatic negotiations et all., but there are some extremely limited circumstances in which armed conflict is acceptable. But these are extremely limited. In my opinion, WWII was the last truly justifiable war we've had.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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  8. #28
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    As I said in another post. Sorry Jimmy's family and friends not only did this scumbag kill little Jimmy, now you get to support this scumbag for the rest of his life, you get to pay for that scumbag's medical care, food, housing, library, rat lawyer that may try to help him weasel out of his punishment
    Point 1: You are conceding that the main motive then (in little Jimmy's case at least) is so the relatives of the victim can settle a score with the perpetrator of the crime. So its revenge, basically?

    Point 2: The entire process from arrest to execution costs more money (taxpayer's money, which you keep harping on) than life imprisonment, as I have mentioned in an earlier post. Go check out the source I included there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    For it to be hypocritical the scumbag on death row would have to be innocent like his victim.
    Point 3: You are generalizing murderers in general. You have the idea that all murderers are child-raping madmen while they are not all that way. There is not just black and white, there is a significant shade of gray here. Tell me how different a state-sanctioned killing is from a civillian murder - they are both taking lives away, that's the bottom line.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Those are not related to capital punishment of today.


    You think things like murder, treason, and other heinous crimes are contemporary social boundaries?
    Point 4: Try to detatch yourself from the social issues of today that we all drown ourselves in for just one second. Could there have been the slightest possibility that people in 1607 regarded the ownership and mistreatment of slaves as they would any other commodity? Yes, they were desensitized to what we now see as inhumane treatment of slaves which is why it happened on such a large scale, perhaps murder may be justified in the future. Impossible? Just consider it before busting a nut.
    "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil."
    - Socrates, Phædo 91

  9. #29
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by AKLee View Post
    However, why don't you consider the possibility of the criminal reforming and as a result, ultimately benefit society?
    That's irrelevant. The death penalty is just that, a PENALTY for actions taken. Whether or not the criminal reforms or potentially does something good with their lives doesn't change the fact that they deserve to be punished for their action and that punishment is the end of their lives. I don't care how sorry they are for their action, the fact that they committed said action at all needs to be addressed.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Is Capital Punishment Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    IMO, the government should not be killing it's citizens for any reason. The only logical reason for capital punishment is as revenge. The Government is not in the revenge business.
    I disagree.
    If a person is convicted of killing or raping (especially a child or senior) I see no reason for said person to remain alive risking the lives of their jailers. ie guards, nurses, doctors, jail house teachers and such.

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