View Poll Results: Do you have a right to NOT join a union

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    100 89.29%
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Thread: A right to NOT join a union?

  1. #51
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    In a private-sector employment agreement, you have the "right" to whatever you're able to contract for.
    Sure, that's true of some companies. However, if the company runs under the shingle "a union shop", many will not allow you to work there if you're not in the union.
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Is this relevant?
    It certainly explains your flippant attitude towards those workers who may be forced into taking jobs that don't offer fair compensation and fair representation. Yes. Your "well just quit if you don't like it" sort of ignores reality in the work place; IMO anyway.

    Fair compensation is whatever I feel is fair. If I don't feel it's fair, then I don't accept the job... or I accept it and continue looking for something better. Either way, I deserve what I accept.
    Again, you are ignoring reality in the work place.

    Why shouldn't people be subjected to the threat of firing? Employees should KNOW full well they can and will be replaced if they don't perform up to the company's standards. Employers should fire anyone who doesn't perform up to their standards. Without threat of firing, why would anyone attempt to do a good job at all?
    Dismissal for due cause is fine. Creating a hostile work environment is not.

    That would only be bad if an employee was forced to work somewhere. People are NOT forced to work for others, slavery was abolished. Employers should be perfectly free to fire anyone for any reason they wish.
    Again ignoring the reality in the work place.

    So they keep them from having to think and act for themselves and take responsibility for their own choices by restricting the rights and choices of private business owners?
    Employers need to pay a fair wage, offer a fair benefits package and compensate their employees. If they can't then they shouldn't start a business since they make their profit off the sweat of their employees.

    Exactly. The WORKERS fought for what they wanted.
    Not wanted. Deserved. And that was accomplished through the collective action of? You guessed it. UNIONS!!!

    What shortcomings are you talking about? I prefer working for places with lax policies as opposed to places with stringent policies either created of their own volition or forced on them by the government. I'm not sure what shortcomings you were talking about.
    You are one of the few who can probably detemine the environment you will work in. Others have no choice because either the options are limited to them through lack of employment or lack of education. Count yourself lucky. And without unions and gov't regulation we'd still be in sweat-shops riv. but methinks you already know that.

    For instance... here in Cali apparently employees HAVE to take a lunch. It's actually ****ing required by law. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. I don't WANT to take lunches, why the hell should I have to? The last place I worked started insisting that I take these stupid lunches which meant that I had to stay at work 30 minutes longer. Yeah, thanks "unions" for ****ing up my day and not allowing me the freedom and responsibility to decide for myself if I want to take a ****ing lunch. Now I get to work for 8.5 hours instead of 8. Yippie.
    Well, then quit and move where you are not forced to take a lunch or are not offered a lunch break.


    No thanks, I can think for myself. I can decide for myself whether or not I want to work somewhere, whether or not my pay is adequate, whether or not I think I'm being mistreated. I don't need some other group of people to come and try and "help" me by only making things worse.
    I'm happy for you. But, again, you are ignoring the reality in the work place.
    Last edited by rsixing; 11-22-08 at 12:44 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    Sure, that's true of some companies. However, if the company runs under the shingle "a union shop", many will not allow you to work there if you're not in the union.
    The point is, your "rights" are whatever you can successfully contract for. If you are somehow able to contract for employment without joining the union, or as a condition of your employment, the company rejects the union, then you do have that "right."
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    It certainly explains your flippant attitude towards those workers who may be forced into taking jobs that don't offer fair compensation and fair representation. Yes. Your "well just quit if you don't like it" sort of ignores reality in the work place; IMO anyway.
    Are you under the assumption I was born making the salary I make? (which, btw, my salary is $0 at the moment since I am no longer working)

    Again, you are ignoring reality in the work place.

    ...

    Again ignoring the reality in the work place.
    I'm ignoring reality because... supposedly I've never worked?

    Employers need to pay a fair wage, offer a fair benefits package and compensate their employees. If they can't then they shouldn't start a business since they make their profit off the sweat of their employees.
    "Fair" is whatever an employee will accept.

    You are one of the few who can probably detemine the environment you will work in. Others have no choice because either the options are limited to them through lack of employment or lack of education. Count yourself lucky. And without unions and gov't regulation we'd still be in sweat-shops riv. but methinks you already know that.
    Again, you think I was born making a decent salary? Or do you think perhaps I've waitressed in some ****holes, bartended in some crappy places, and hell.... even been a prostitute for awhile? I'll give you a hint: I wasn't born making a salary.



    Well, then quit and move where you are not forced to take a lunch or are not offered a lunch break.
    I said "the last place I worked". I no longer work there. And, I'm in the process of moving out of this god forsaken state. I'll be back home in less than a month.

    If I am not happy with my working conditions, I find another job.

    I'm happy for you. But, again, you are ignoring the reality in the work place.
    So the work I've done the past 20 years isn't reality?

  5. #55
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Are you under the assumption I was born making the salary I make? (which, btw, my salary is $0 at the moment since I am no longer working)
    No. I had no delusion about that riv.

    I'm ignoring reality because... supposedly I've never worked?
    No but you're insulated from the reality of those who are scraping by and under the misconception they can just quit and find another job if they don't like the one they have.

    "Fair" is whatever an employee will accept.
    Sure. In the mind of a capitalist concentrating on one thing and one thing only, profit.

    In the mind of a worker fair is pay commensurate with the job, the sacrifices they make, the amount of work performed and what is truly fair compensation.

    Again, you think I was born making a decent salary? Or do you think perhaps I've waitressed in some ****holes, bartended in some crappy places, and hell.... even been a prostitute for awhile? I'll give you a hint: I wasn't born making a salary.
    Never thought that at all. Doesn't mean you're not ignoring the reality of the work place though. Which you are.

    I said "the last place I worked". I no longer work there. And, I'm in the process of moving out of this god forsaken state. I'll be back home in less than a month.

    If I am not happy with my working conditions, I find another job.
    And you are fortunate that you are capable of doing that. I am too but that does in no way mean all people, all workers, are able or capable of doing the same thing riv.

    So the work I've done the past 20 years isn't reality?
    Sure, it's your reality. But your understanding of the work place is not since your understanding is, obviously, tilted towards the employer and their profit goals and not the employee and their needs.

    Gawd I sound like a communist but I want you to know I'm not. Really.
    Last edited by rsixing; 11-22-08 at 04:11 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The point is, your "rights" are whatever you can successfully contract for. If you are somehow able to contract for employment without joining the union, or as a condition of your employment, the company rejects the union, then you do have that "right."
    No. You're being argumentative. A "right" is something you're due. You know, the right to free speech, the right to bear arms, etc. A contract or working conditions you negotiate are not "rights".
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    No. I had no delusion about that riv.



    No but you're insulated from the reality of those who are scraping by and under the misconception they can just quit and find another job if they don't like the one they have.



    Sure. In the mind of a capitalist concentrating on one thing and one thing only, profit.

    In the mind of a worker fair is pay commensurate with the job, the sacrifices they make, the amount of work performed and what is truly fair compensation.



    Never thought that at all. Doesn't mean you're not ignoring the reality of the work place though. Which you are.



    And you are fortunate that you are capable of doing that. I am too but that does in no way mean all people, all workers, are able or capable of doing the same thing riv.



    Sure, it's your reality. But your understanding of the work place is not since your understanding is, obviously, tilted towards the employer and their profit goals and not the employee and their needs.

    Gawd I sound like a communist but I want you to know I'm not. Really.
    I'm still not sure why you think that my opinion is what it is because I haven't struggled financially. I assure you, I spent many years struggling financially

  8. #58
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Unfortunately not all unions are for the people as they should be. There's a union here in Seattle, SEIU Local 9, that is the shadiest operation I've seen. They adopted Contracted Security into their union (forcefully) and the funny thing is they cannot protect them at all. Security is unable to strike as it is a 24/7 necessity and all contracts state that in the event the guards refuse to work they will contract a temporary security service in place of them untill they find another company. So no striking if you don't like the proposed contract. The union only recognizes the occupied floors of a building as security oriented square footage.... even though the security officers have to patrol not only the occupied areas, but the inactive areas, the parking floors, the roof, the exterior, the storage facility, and the empty building next to ours etc, so they are paid at a lower rate than the contract states they should, based on square feet.

    I feel bad for the contracted physical security here. They know they are being hosed, but even if they choose not to be a part of the union, their dues will still be taken out and given to a charity of the SEIU's choice instead of theirselves.

  9. #59
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    In many places, such as school systems or places of higher education, if a union is in place, employees must join it, regardless as to the preference of the employee.

    Do you have a right to NOT join a union?

    Why/why not?
    Sure, as long as you're willing to disavow any pay increases or additional holidays or improvements won by the unions, and are satisified that employers know you have less of a professional support network than union-members, and are willing to accept that this'll bar you from certain fields. But if you've joined a field with mandatory unionisation, then no, you don't.
    Last edited by Anima; 11-23-08 at 02:33 PM.
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm from Chi-town where we say "You's Guys"
    Or, if you'd like to just be able to shout "YOOS!", come to Glasgow.
    "I'll govern for all the ambitions of Scotland, and for all of the people who imagine that we can live in a better land. This party, the Scottish party, your party, carries your hope, and we shall carry it carefully, and make the nation proud."
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