View Poll Results: Do you have a right to NOT join a union

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  • Yes

    100 89.29%
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Thread: A right to NOT join a union?

  1. #41
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Hmmm...
    What effect have the unions had on the movement of manufacturing jobs overseas?
    Or on the decline in competiveness of the US big 3 automakers?
    this reminds me of "roger & me"

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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
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  3. #43
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    In many places, such as school systems or places of higher education, if a union is in place, employees must join it, regardless as to the preference of the employee.

    Do you have a right to NOT join a union?

    Why/why not?
    To be honest in some key industries I wouldn't mind seeing something like a mandatory guild or professional association system. This would be different to a union and be about keeping up professional standards as much as getting better pay, run in a federative and decentralised fashion with input from similar organisations representing consumers and the community.

    But in general I'd say you should have the right not to join.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 11-21-08 at 09:19 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    these "unions" that brought all these benefits....which ones had mandatory membership?

    I like unions. When I get a job, I plan to be in a union, but I will NOT be forced to do it though, or else I will move.
    That's your choice so exercise it as you see fit DW. Personally I will only take a union job so if it's compulsory I don't care as I won't work in a non-union shop and will move to avoid that.


  5. #45
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Yeah, well, that doesn't make unions exclusively warriors for the good and the light.
    It certainly is a positive, in their defense, and we have those things I mentioned specifically because of unions. You cannot take that away from them.

    Keep in mind, when the National Labor Relations Act was passed, section 8 listed unfair labor practices by companies. It was later amended, and that section 8 became section 8(a). Section 8(b) was added, listing unfair labor practices by unions. That list was much longer.
    I agree that abuse from either corner is unacceptable. These NLRA rules make it clear what will not be tolerated:

    Examples of Employer Conduct Which Violate the NLRA Are:
    • Threatening employees with loss of jobs or benefits if they join or vote for a union or engage in protected concerted activity.
    • Threatening to close the plant if employees select a union to represent them.
    • Questioning employees about their union sympathies or activities in circumstances that tend to interfere with, restrain or coerce employees in the exercise of their rights under the Act.
    • Promising benefits to employees to discourage their union support.
    • Transferring, laying off, terminating, assigning employees more difficult work tasks, or otherwise punishing employees because they engaged in union or protected concerted activity.
    • Transferring, laying off, terminating, assigning employees more difficult work tasks, or otherwise punishing employees because they filed unfair labor practice charges or participated in an investigation conducted by NLRB.
    Examples of Labor Organization Conduct Which Violate the NLRA Are:
    • Threats to employees that they will lose their jobs unless they support the union.
    • Seeking the suspension, discharge or other punishment of an employee for not being a union member even if the employee has paid or offered to pay a lawful initiation fee and periodic fees thereafter.
    • Refusing to process a grievance because an employee has criticized union officials or because an employee is not a member of the union in states where union security clauses are not permitted.
    • Fining employees who have validly resigned from the union for engaging in protected concerted activities following their resignation or for crossing an unlawful picket line.
    • Engaging in picket line misconduct, such as threatening, assaulting, or barring non-strikers from the employer's premises.
    • Striking over issues unrelated to employment terms and conditions or coercively enmeshing neutrals into a labor dispute.
    Any violation, whether by employer or union should be immediately reported.

  6. #46
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    Did you mean 'shouldn't'?

    As far as 'who' owns you a union keeps an employer from abusing you through unfair work hours, unfair labor practices, ignoring your rights as a worker, and motivates them to pay you a fair wage (approx. 30% more) with a fair benefits package. Those outside a union do not receive fair compensation nor fair representation.
    Fair compensation is whatever they will accept.

    And if your employer is abusing you, quit. That makes it real easy not to have your "rights" violated by an employer. No union is needed for that.

    Additionally people forget that without the unions we wouldn't have a 40 hour work week, days off, overtime pay, benefits etc...these benefits certainly didn't start because an employer thought we deserved them but because the unions fought for our rights.
    Don't you mean the workers fought for their "rights".

    Most jobs I've worked though haven't had 40 hr workweeks, set days off (or even guaranteed days off), overtime pay OR benefits.

  7. #47
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    This is a misleading OP. Of course you have a right to NOT join a union. But, you do not have a right to force a company to hire you when you do not want to join the union that protects its employees. Many of your "inalienable" rights end when you go from private citizen to employee.
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  8. #48
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    This is a misleading OP. Of course you have a right to NOT join a union. But, you do not have a right to force a company to hire you when you do not want to join the union that protects its employees. Many of your "inalienable" rights end when you go from private citizen to employee.
    In a private-sector employment agreement, you have the "right" to whatever you're able to contract for.
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  9. #49
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Fair compensation is whatever they will accept.
    Don't I remember you stating your combined income was over 250K a year? Or am I thinking of someone else?

    No I disagree. Fair compensation is not whatever a worker will accept, fair compensation is being compensated adequately, monetarily, for work performed.

    Sometimes, oftentimes, workers are by circumstance placed in an unfavorable position and by necessity forced to accept a job where they are purposefully under payed, receive little to no benefits and are subjected to hostile work environments such as the threat of firing.

    Such as in the state of Oregon an employer only has to give "reasonable" notice of overtime. According to the BOLI the definition of "reasonable" is left to the employer to define, no standard is applied, so "reasonable" notice amounts to showing up for work at the beginning of a shift and told you will work until the work is done and if an employee is unable to do so, even when notice of overtime is obviously not adequate, they can and are fired without recourse.

    In other words if your employer wanted you to have a life they would issue you one.

    And if your employer is abusing you, quit. That makes it real easy not to have your "rights" violated by an employer. No union is needed for that.
    In a perfect world, right?

    I'm sorry but the world you live in must be very different from mine and those around me. People, real people with families, children, bills, expenses, utilities, mortgages, car payments, etc. are not always able to just quit. See, men and women must work and for whatever reason other employment may not and is not (unemployment is at what...7 1/2% right now?) readily available so I find your scenario unreasonable and naive, to say the least. Unions protect employees from having to "just quit" by empowering them and protecting them from unfair labor practices.

    Don't you mean the workers fought for their "rights".
    Unions are the workers.

    Most jobs I've worked though haven't had 40 hr workweeks, set days off (or even guaranteed days off), overtime pay OR benefits.
    These are short comings of the U.S. Department of Labor Employment Standards Administration. Unions are working to prevent these abuses and IMO every business, bar none, should be a union shop where the employee is protected from unfair labor practice and unfair compensation.
    Last edited by rsixing; 11-22-08 at 01:30 AM.

  10. #50
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by rsixing View Post
    Don't I remember you stating your combined income was over 250K a year? Or am I thinking of someone else?
    Is this relevant?

    No I disagree. Fair compensation is not whatever a worker will accept, fair compensation is being compensated adequately, monetarily, for work performed.
    Fair compensation is whatever I feel is fair. If I don't feel it's fair, then I don't accept the job... or I accept it and continue looking for something better. Either way, I deserve what I accept.


    Sometimes, oftentimes, workers are by circumstance placed in an unfavorable position and by necessity forced to accept a job where they are purposefully under payed, receive little to no benefits and are subjected to hostile work environments such as the threat of firing.
    Why shouldn't people be subjected to the threat of firing? Employees should KNOW full well they can and will be replaced if they don't perform up to the company's standards. Employers should fire anyone who doesn't perform up to their standards. Without threat of firing, why would anyone attempt to do a good job at all?

    Such as in the state of Oregon an employer only has to give "reasonable" notice of overtime. According to the BOLI the definition of "reasonable" is left to the employer to define, no standard is applied, so "reasonable" notice amounts to showing up for work at the beginning of a shift and told you will work until the work is done and if an employee is unable to do so, even when notice of overtime is obviously not adequate, they can and are fired without recourse.

    In other words if your employer wanted you to have a life they would issue you one.
    That would only be bad if an employee was forced to work somewhere. People are NOT forced to work for others, slavery was abolished. Employers should be perfectly free to fire anyone for any reason they wish.


    In a perfect world, right?

    I'm sorry but the world you live in must be very different from mine and those around me. People, real people with families, children, bills, expenses, utilities, mortgages, car payments, etc. are not always able to just quit. See, men and women must work and for whatever reason other employment may not and is not (unemployment is at what...7 1/2% right now?) readily available so I find your scenario unreasonable and naive, to say the least. Unions protect employees from having to "just quit" by empowering them and protecting them from unfair labor practices.
    So they keep them from having to think and act for themselves and take responsibility for their own choices by restricting the rights and choices of private business owners?

    Unions are the workers.
    Exactly. The WORKERS fought for what they wanted.


    These are short comings of the U.S. Department of Labor Employment Standards Administration. Unions are working to prevent these abuses and IMO every business, bar none, should be a union shop where the employee is protected from unfair labor practice and unfair compensation.
    What shortcomings are you talking about? I prefer working for places with lax policies as opposed to places with stringent policies either created of their own volition or forced on them by the government. I'm not sure what shortcomings you were talking about.

    For instance... here in Cali apparently employees HAVE to take a lunch. It's actually ****ing required by law. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. I don't WANT to take lunches, why the hell should I have to? The last place I worked started insisting that I take these stupid lunches which meant that I had to stay at work 30 minutes longer. Yeah, thanks "unions" for ****ing up my day and not allowing me the freedom and responsibility to decide for myself if I want to take a ****ing lunch. Now I get to work for 8.5 hours instead of 8. Yippie.

    No thanks, I can think for myself. I can decide for myself whether or not I want to work somewhere, whether or not my pay is adequate, whether or not I think I'm being mistreated. I don't need some other group of people to come and try and "help" me by only making things worse.

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