View Poll Results: Do you have a right to NOT join a union

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  • Yes

    100 89.29%
  • No

    12 10.71%
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Thread: A right to NOT join a union?

  1. #191
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    My point is that this does not happen.

    What part of that is so hard for you to understand?
    It does not happen because Unions make concessions which you hate so much.

  2. #192
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav
    It does not happen because Unions make concessions which you hate so much.
    Not true. Even when the rank-and-file are successful in pushing through their demands at the protest of the union bureaucrats that want to make such "concessions" businesses do not go under.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #193
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    No, the unions defend the workers against losing their jobs...
    By making the company go out of business or deciding it's cheaper to outsource the jobs overseas. Good strategy.

    Or the workers can strike and win their demands.
    Or the owner can say the hell with it, fire them all and go under. All the demands in the world don't matter if the company no longer exists.
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  4. #194
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    By making the company go out of business or deciding it's cheaper to outsource the jobs overseas. Good strategy.
    Unions don't "make the company go out of business," nor do they "make it decide to outsource jobs". That is a choice that the business makes, and it is due more to the fact that the head honchos aren't willing to dip into their seven figure incomes.

    But as I have already said before, outsourcing can be prevented if the workers are organized enough to prevent it from happening.

    Or the owner can say the hell with it, fire them all and go under. All the demands in the world don't matter if the company no longer exists.
    Then the workers can take control of the means of production.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #195
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Then the workers can take control of the means of production.
    Right, because workers, as a rule, spontaneously do things like that.

    Why wait until there's a company? Why not form one themselves?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #196
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    But as I have already said before, outsourcing can be prevented if the workers are organized enough to prevent it from happening.
    How, exactly, does labor 'organize' in such a way to prevent outsourcing?

  7. #197
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    Then the workers can take control of the means of production.
    Right, because workers, as a rule, spontaneously do things like that.
    Well they have in the past, although it is uncommon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    How, exactly, does labor 'organize' in such a way to prevent outsourcing?
    The entire history of the US labour movement is filled with countless examples of workers striking against plant closures and winning.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #198
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Well they have in the past, although it is uncommon.
    Yes. It's uncommon.



    The entire history of the US labour movement is filled with countless examples of workers striking against plant closures and winning.
    That generally happens in the cases of runaway shops, not the total closure of the business.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  9. #199
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw
    That generally happens in the cases of runaway shops, not the total closure of the business.
    Yes, you asked about outsourcing, which is different than "the total closure of the business."
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  10. #200
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Yes, you asked about outsourcing, which is different than "the total closure of the business."
    Well, Goobieman did, but you're right, and that was my mistake there.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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