View Poll Results: Do you have a right to NOT join a union

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  • Yes

    100 89.29%
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Thread: A right to NOT join a union?

  1. #151
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Grey View Post
    They also set the possibility for a minimum standard to exist. In a non-union environment, even if every worker busts their ass, the employer can just dump more work on them and keep raising their standards for raises to urnealistic levels (look at commissioned retail employment; the bar always raises on sales.)

    With a union, you can realistically get together with your boss and determine, definitively, just what a days work SHOULD consist of. There is no great moral evil in that. Work can and should be demanding and challenging, but it shouldn't be increased in volume just on some vague principle about work ethic.
    I have worked in many non-union places that could have used a union-the way they were intended. Unfortunately greedy employers are often being chosed as a lesser of two evils. The quality of unions pretty much sucks. Again few of you would dare tackle the issue of unions forcing me to contribute to political causes I don't believe in. That's because there is no defense for that. Put simply, unions have ruined the unions. It's too bad. I once worked for the world's largest meat packers, IBP inc. They were notoriously horrible to their employees-I even witnessed some thing that were downright criminal. But when it came to a vote to unionize, it was voted down big-time, with no coercing by the company-they didn't have too. The Union, the UFCW, did all the coercing and turned people off so much that they accepted the abuse from IBP over the "benefits" of unionizing with the UFCW. Until unions re-invent themselves and clean up, right to work is in no danger.
    Last edited by frazier991; 09-01-09 at 06:06 PM.
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  2. #152
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier991 View Post
    I have worked in many non-union places that could have used a union-the way they were intended. Unfortunately greedy employers are often being chosed as a lesser of two evils. The quality of unions pretty much sucks. Again few of you would dare tackle the issue of unions forcing me to contribute to political causes I don't believe in. That's because there is no defense for that. Put simply, unions have ruined the unions. It's too bad. I once worked for the world's largest meat packers, IBP inc. They were notoriously horrible to their employees-I even witnessed some thing that were downright criminal. But when it came to a vote to unionize, it was voted down big-time, with no coercing by the company-they didn't have too. The Union, the UFCW, did all the coercing and turned people off so much that they accepted the abuse from IBP over the "benefits" of unionizing with the UFCW. Until unions re-invent themselves and clean up, right to work is in no danger.
    Well hold on... my union solicited donations specifically for compaign contribution that were extra. Their own bi-laws prevent them from contributing just out of dues. And again...they've been good to me, un-beligerant, profitable for me, and I don't think they've ruined anyone's opinion so far as I know.

    But every paycheck some of my coworkers whine and whine about their dues. Perhaps my opinion is too colored by what's close to home to appreciate what you have to say about other unions...I sort of assumed people were just whining in the same way my coworkers do.

  3. #153
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier991
    I have worked in many non-union places that could have used a union-the way they were intended. Unfortunately greedy employers are often being chosed as a lesser of two evils. The quality of unions pretty much sucks. Again few of you would dare tackle the issue of unions forcing me to contribute to political causes I don't believe in. That's because there is no defense for that. Put simply, unions have ruined the unions. It's too bad. I once worked for the world's largest meat packers, IBP inc. They were notoriously horrible to their employees-I even witnessed some thing that were downright criminal. But when it came to a vote to unionize, it was voted down big-time, with no coercing by the company-they didn't have too. The Union, the UFCW, did all the coercing and turned people off so much that they accepted the abuse from IBP over the "benefits" of unionizing with the UFCW. Until unions re-invent themselves and clean up, right to work is in no danger.
    Workers have always been sandwiched between the bosses on the one side and the bureaucrats on the other trying to squeeze out as much as they can. This is nothing new at all.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #154
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Workers have always been sandwiched between the bosses on the one side and the bureaucrats on the other trying to squeeze out as much as they can. This is nothing new at all.
    Unions ARE the workers though...they don't spring up out of federal or state bureaucracies somehow...

  5. #155
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Grey View Post
    Unions ARE the workers though...they don't spring up out of federal or state bureaucracies somehow...
    That would be nice but it's often not true. Most big unions have absolutely no stake in an individual company, they are run by a national organization that collects dues and spends them as they see fit. Unions don't spring out of government bureaucracies, they spring out of national union bureaucracies.
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  6. #156
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That would be nice but it's often not true. Most big unions have absolutely no stake in an individual company, they are run by a national organization that collects dues and spends them as they see fit. Unions don't spring out of government bureaucracies, they spring out of national union bureaucracies.
    The larger ones may be far-reaching, but all of them came out of an industry somewhere. There is no chicken-and-egg question about where unions come from.

  7. #157
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    [QUOTE=Agent_Grey;1058228975]Well hold on... my union solicited donations specifically for compaign contribution that were extra. Their own bi-laws prevent them from contributing just out of dues. And again...they've been good to me, un-beligerant, profitable for me, and I don't think they've ruined anyone's opinion so far as I know.

    But every paycheck some of my coworkers whine and whine about their dues. Perhaps my opinion is too colored by what's close to home to appreciate what you have to say about other unions...I sort of assumed people were just whining in the same way my coworkers do.[/QUOTE Unions DO ENDORSE CAUSES AND AND CANDIDATES! They get their money from YOU! I'm glad you're in a good union. I just wish that were the norm. I've been victimized by some corporations. They shouldn't even be allowed to sollicit donations.
    When governments fear people, there is liberty, when people fear governments, there's Tyranny

  8. #158
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    [quote=frazier991;1058229039]
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent_Grey View Post
    Well hold on... my union solicited donations specifically for compaign contribution that were extra. Their own bi-laws prevent them from contributing just out of dues. And again...they've been good to me, un-beligerant, profitable for me, and I don't think they've ruined anyone's opinion so far as I know.

    But every paycheck some of my coworkers whine and whine about their dues. Perhaps my opinion is too colored by what's close to home to appreciate what you have to say about other unions...I sort of assumed people were just whining in the same way my coworkers do.[/QUOTE Unions DO ENDORSE CAUSES AND AND CANDIDATES! They get their money from YOU! I'm glad you're in a good union. I just wish that were the norm. I've been victimized by some corporations. They shouldn't even be allowed to sollicit donations.
    Fair enough. I'm all for better unions. Don't think it will happen until the american worker wields a little more power. Job relocation has been the last nail in the coffin for that as near as I can tell.

  9. #159
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    [quote=Agent_Grey;1058229047]
    Quote Originally Posted by frazier991 View Post

    Fair enough. I'm all for better unions. Don't think it will happen until the american worker wields a little more power. Job relocation has been the last nail in the coffin for that as near as I can tell.
    My apologies to Agent Gray. The way I posted my comments, came out in the blue which might make people think they are your comments. Didn't mean to do that
    When governments fear people, there is liberty, when people fear governments, there's Tyranny

  10. #160
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    Re: A right to NOT join a union?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grey
    Unions ARE the workers though...they don't spring up out of federal or state bureaucracies somehow...
    I was referring to union bureaucrats, not government bureaucrats. The government is on the same side of the bosses, so if you want me to clarify you can put bosses/the government on one side instead of just "bosses".

    Fair enough. I'm all for better unions. Don't think it will happen until the american worker wields a little more power. Job relocation has been the last nail in the coffin for that as near as I can tell.
    Often I hear people blame unions and union workers for relocations. For example, if a company says that they will relocate a factory unless the workers satisfy certain demands (pay cuts, losing certain benefits, etc...) and the union rejects these demands. The company ends up relocating the factory and people blame workers for not accepting those demands.

    It is hard times, isn't it? Shouldn't everyone have to cut back? What makes these union workers think they shouldn't have to? What a bunch of ungrateful leeches, right?!

    Of course not! While the big wigs at the top make seven figure salaries with comparable bonuses, why should they have to accept pay cuts? The reality is that the reason the plant moved was not because the workers rejected the company's demands, but because the workers were not organized enough to fight for their jobs and win.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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