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Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  • Yes

    Votes: 68 54.4%
  • No

    Votes: 57 45.6%

  • Total voters
    125
Status
Not open for further replies.
steen said:
You TRULY are utterly ignorant of the US Constitution. It's purpose is majorly to protect the minorities from the "tyrrany of the majority." Your very comment here shows how truly ignorant you are of these matters.
Per the US Constitution, yes they are. And this has been explained to you and you simply reject it. hence you are now outright lying. This is disappointing as I had not taken you for an outright liar.
But the individual right of not having religion forced on them IS being violated here. So your clkaim is false.
So you spit on on the US Constitution. Yes, I am not surprised.
Uhum, that wors so well, have a teacher walk with that kid every monent they are in school to prevent bullying. Your remarks are now getting downright stupid.
Yes, they should have to, as long as the one's rights are protected by the US Constitution, in this case the Esstablishment Clause.

Well so much for civility and substantive debate.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well so much for civility and substantive debate.


I must agree that you are ignorant on the matter. I am not here to talk about opinion, as you said earlier. No wonder, since your opinion is that making the phrase "under God" in the pledge illegal, is unconstitutional. I am talking about the facts. In this case, they are certainly not on your side. That you have no problem with majority rule (and you're free not to) bothers me greatly and to believe it's constitutional is enough to prove that you don't comprehend the basic principles of our founding document. If it were a majority of Atheists making the offical pledge include "without God" that would be unconstitutional and just as much so as having "under God" added in the pledge. Let's not forget that the Knights of Columbus were the ones pushing for this phrase to be added, so yes, the "God" being referred to is clearly the Christian one. I don't know how you can say with a straight face that "under God" can be seen as non-religious. You're just kidding yourself and so is anyone else making that claim. We are not under the authority of a divine being and our government has no right state such a thing. We are a nation governed by it's people, not "God" and our Constitution makes this clear. Our government shouldn't be saying otherwise. If you can't see the danger there, fine. But just because you don't doesn't make the phrase constitutional. I really want to know what is wrong with reverting the pledge back to the way it was. The only reason to be against it is if you want favoritism of Christianity to be backed by the government.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Well so much for civility and substantive debate.
It is not incivil to point out where you are ignorant of facts and/or plain wrong. And there was plenty of substance in my post, but just not any that supported your claims.
 
alex said:
Prove that this country was founded under godly principles.

The act of writing the pledge is not being interfered with so the author is not having their freedom infringed upon. The act of Congress passing a law making the Pledge the official pledge of this country is unconstitutional as clearly expressed in our First Amendment. Making it mandatory for recitation is also unconstitutional as clearly stated in the same amendment.

Proof

Was America founded as a Christian nation?
There are many today who would doubt or deny that this is true. There has even been an attempt to cover up and, in some cases, to destroy the legacy of Christian thinking that has gone into the formation of our republic. Yet what were the true thoughts and intentions of the men and women who came before us?

A careful look into the past reveals landmarks which were essential in guiding America along the pathway that led us to where we are today. More often than not, at each one of these landmarks, there also appears irrefutable evidence that a sense of divine destiny accompanied the most important events of our history.

Here in part are some of these landmarks:

1490-1492 - Columbus' commission was given to set out to find a new world.

According to Columbus' personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to "bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. .... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies ... I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely ... No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service." (Columbus' Book of Prophecies)

April 10, 1606 - The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

"To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God."

November 3, 1620 - King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

"In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty."

November 11, 1620 - The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

"For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith ... doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick."

March 4, 1629 - The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

"For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion.."

January 14, 1638 - The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

"To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe..."

August 4, 1639 - The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

"Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God..."

September 26, 1642 - The rules and precepts that were to govern Harvard were set up.

"Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternall life, John 17:3 and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him Prov. 2.3."

Harvard College was founded on Christi Gloriam and later dedicated Christo et Ecclesiae. The founders of Harvard believed that "all knowledge without Christ was vain."

The charter of Yale University clearly expressed the purpose for which the school was founded: "Whereas several well disposed and Publick spirited Persons of their sincere Regard to & zeal for upholding & propagating of the Christian Protestant Religion ... youth may be instructed in the Arts & Sciences who through the blessing of Almighty God may be fitted for Publick employment both in Church & Civil State."

In addition to Harvard and Yale, 106 out of the first 108 schools in America were founded on the Christian faith.

April 3, 1644 - The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

"That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses ... be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction ..."

1647 - Governor William Bradford publishes Of Plimouth Plantation.

"Lastly, (and which was not least,) a great hope and inward zeall they (the Pilgrims) had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way thereunto, for ye propagation and advancing of ye gospell or ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world; yea, though they should be but stepping-stones unto others for ye performing of so great a work ... their desires were set on ye ways of God, and to employ his ordinances; but they rested on his providence, and know whom they had beleeved."

April 21, 1649 - The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

"Be it therefor ... enacted ... that no person or persons whatsoever within this province ... professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall ... henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) ... in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof ..."

April 25, 1689 - The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

"Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government ... therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God ..."

May 20, 1775 - North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

"We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress."

Summer 12, 1775 - Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

"And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day."

Summer 2-4, 1776 - Declaration of Independence written and signed.

"We hold these truths ... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights ... appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world ... And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..."

As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come."

On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."

Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is "the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence."

September 17, 1787 - The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 - James Madison, the "architect" of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."

April 30, 1789 - Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

"My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes."

March 11, 1792 - President George Washington:

"I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution."

December 20, 1820 - Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

"Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate ... and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary."
 
July 4, 1821 - John Quincy Adams:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration ... they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct."

1833 - Noah Webster:

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles ... This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government ... the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws."

1841 - Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

"In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious ... there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."

Summer 8, 1845 - President Andrew Jackson asserts:

"The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests."

February 11, 1861 - Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

"Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail ... Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now."

Lincoln on the Bible:

"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it." (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

1884 - U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration's reference to our rights as being God-given.

These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, "we hold these truths to be self-evident" that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement "that all men are endowed" - not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but "by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these" - not grant them but secure them "governments are instituted among men."

1891 - The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a "Christian Nation."

"Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian ... this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ... we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth ... this is a Christian nation." (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

1909 - President Theodore Roosevelt:

"After a week on perplexing problems ... it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty' ... (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world." (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt - The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

1913 - President Woodrow Wilson:

"America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures."

1952 - US Supreme Court defines the "Separation of Church and State."

"We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being ... No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects ... The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State."

January 20, 1977 - President Jimmy Carter:

"Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: 'He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God'" (Micah 6:2).

1980 - President Ronald Reagan:

"The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America ... our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal."

May 3, 1990 - President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

"The great faith that led our Nation's Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our 'firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,' to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator."
 
I love that picture not a democrat. It is simply pretty.
 
Not a Democrat said:
Proof

Was America founded as a Christian nation?
Not very "Christisan" like to plagiarize from websites, now is it?

I found this in a nanosecond thru Google:

http://r2rministries.com/history/X0067_America_-_A_Christia.html

BTW - I think the website is BS and the "philosphy" presented is the Christian equivalent to a cult and brain washing.

Did you miss the day in school they taught you about the Constitution? Perhaps instead of posting other people's words you can read the Constitution and try to grasp it's meaning?

Do you think quoting certain individuals supercedes The Constitution? Don't you think for every quote that was plagiarized there's another quote from the opposite point of view waiting to be plagiarized?

Thank GOD that we have the Constitution to protect us from the exact kind of thinking that it protects us from!
 
26 X World Champs said:
Not very "Christisan" like to plagiarize from websites, now is it?

I found this in a nanosecond thru Google:

http://r2rministries.com/history/X0067_America_-_A_Christia.html

BTW - I think the website is BS and the "philosphy" presented is the Christian equivalent to a cult and brain washing.

Did you miss the day in school they taught you about the Constitution? Perhaps instead of posting other people's words you can read the Constitution and try to grasp it's meaning?

Do you think quoting certain individuals supercedes The Constitution? Don't you think for every quote that was plagiarized there's another quote from the opposite point of view waiting to be plagiarized?

Thank GOD that we have the Constitution to protect us from the exact kind of thinking that it protects us from!

Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that. No it's not mine. Thats why there are these little thing " " " " meaning the words above were from someone Else's mouthes. They are called quotes. :roll:

Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.

You can think it is BS if you want to. I don't care. It is fact and no matter how much liberals, atheists, and communists democrats hate it, you can't change it... By fact I mean that the founding fathers based alot of their decisions upon the Christian religion. You want proof, dig for it, it's there.

Yes I have read the constitution (isn't this flaming). It has been taken so far out of context by libs, claiming that religion never played any part of the founding decision of this country. They call "separation of church and state" Introduced into the constitution in the 1900S (far after the deaths of the founding fathers). This a founding principal of this country because the govt and catholic church in england made the decisions side by side. Basically this decision was made to allow the govt to stand on its own 2 feet. The freedom of religion portion was based upon the rising popularity of the prodistant church (several founding fathers were prodistants). The Catholic church persecuted prodistants for blasphemy against God. The founding fathers wanted Americans to have the ability to worship whatever God they wanted or even nothing at all.
 
Not a Democrat said:
Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that. No it's not mine. Thats why there are these little thing " " " " meaning the words above were from someone Else's mouthes. They are called quotes. :roll:
This forum has clearly stated rules against posting complete copyrighted pieces without citing the source and the rules state that you should only post a portion of the piece NOT the complete piece as you did.
Not a Democrat said:
Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.
:rofl You think because a propaganda piece comes up in Google multiple times it means that it's FACT? :doh

Why don't you do a Google search for 9-11 Conspiracy Theories? You'll find a zillion and one sites so using your "logic" that means that theory is true too? :coffeepap

BTW - Your link is a link to nothing...the link I provided is directly from the plagiarized piece.
Not a Democrat said:
The founding fathers wanted Americans to have the ability to worship whatever God they wanted or even nothing at all.
You know what? I AGREE! 100% true! They also set it up so the American government NEVER EVER take any side re religion, it is totally neutral and ANY attempt to get an endorsement of religion by the government is UNCONSTITUTIONAL...and you know what? The Supreme Court has affirmed this oh so basic and obvious fact.
 
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Not a Democrat said:
Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that. No it's not mine. Thats why there are these little thing " " " " meaning the words above were from someone Else's mouthes. They are called quotes. :roll:

Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.

You can think it is BS if you want to. I don't care. It is fact and no matter how much liberals, atheists, and communists democrats hate it, you can't change it... By fact I mean that the founding fathers based alot of their decisions upon the Christian religion. You want proof, dig for it, it's there.

Yes I have read the constitution (isn't this flaming). It has been taken so far out of context by libs, claiming that religion never played any part of the founding decision of this country. They call "separation of church and state" Introduced into the constitution in the 1900S (far after the deaths of the founding fathers). This a founding principal of this country because the govt and catholic church in england made the decisions side by side. Basically this decision was made to allow the govt to stand on its own 2 feet. The freedom of religion portion was based upon the rising popularity of the prodistant church (several founding fathers were prodistants). The Catholic church persecuted prodistants for blasphemy against God. The founding fathers wanted Americans to have the ability to worship whatever God they wanted or even nothing at all.

[mod mode]

I know you just provided the link, but please don't wait until someone calls you on plagiarism to do it. And next time, either paraphrase the article, or just quote part of it with the link.

Thanks.

[/mod mode]
 
Not a Democrat said:
Etc, etc. This obviously was lifted from somewhere, somewhere you forgot to credit which surely is a copyright violation. Funny how conservatives apparently now believe that private property should be abolished? Kind of a commie thing to do
Was America founded as a Christian nation?
Etc, etc, pages of stuff, much of it from BEFORE the US COnstitution was ratified, and some of these directly ILLEGAL per the Constitution, such as this part:
Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.
That, of course directly violates the US Constitution. That is clear evidence that all the little irrelevant things, many of which is even from before the Declaration of Independence, whatever relevance you thought that might have, are pintless. What DOES matter is what the US Constitution says is the Establishment Clause:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

So you can ramble and yammer about rights of religion and whatnot, but THIS is the only thing that matters. The Government can NOT legally establish a religion in the US, it can not impose one religion as the recognized one, and not inflict its practices on others.

All the rest of your attempts at presenting your wishful thinking as "fact," merely shows how dishonest the theocrats are. Yes, you want to circumvent the US Constitution because it doesn't allow you to impose on others, and you hate it. You want it to not be so.

Your un-American disrespect for the foundation for what makes us all Americans is duly noted. The anti-patriotism of the fundie rightwing theocrats is duly noted in posts like your and those of your fellow conservative fundies.
 
I get hit by mods for not posting a link (first 2 hours on this forum, my appologies, my bad, I wasn't taking credit my self, as mentioned above " " " " these mean it is a quote..At least I can admit my own mistake unlike your poster boy of 04) but name calling, isn't that flaming and against forum policy also. Not a very "people person" liberal democrat. Typical :roll:
 
Not a Democrat said:
I get hit by mods for not posting a link (first 2 hours on this forum, my appologies, my bad, I wasn't taking credit my self, as mentioned above " " " " these mean it is a quote..At least I can admit my own mistake unlike your poster boy of 04) but name calling, isn't that flaming and against forum policy also. Not a very "people person" liberal democrat. Typical :roll:

[mod mode]

Calm down. I didn't hit ya. Just a friendly little reminder. :2wave:

If you believe that someone was flaming, there's a little triangle with an exclamation point inside that you can use to report the post (it's on the bottom left), and the mod team will look over it.

[/mod mode]
 
Not a Democrat said:
Thanks, thats mighty democrat of you 2 accuse me of plagiarism. That means you think that I came up with that.
Hmm, that sure is illogical. It means that he reocgnized that you had NOT written it, but that you didn't attributre the source

That is plagiarism, and it is also a copyright violation. It measn that you are dishonest. Are conservatives dishonest? Is it ONLY YOU who are dishonest? Or was it merely an oversight that you "forgot" to list the source?
Also the site you found is not the site that I got them from. I got them from HTTP://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0192_America_-_A_Christian.HTML. This information comes up multiple times from different sites only proof to me that it is 100% fact.
Really? That is a fascinating claim. If the same info shows up on several sites that copy from each oither, then the information automatically is "100% fact"? That sounds very illogical and even downright stupid. So please elaborate on that cliam of your, so we can be sure that you are NOT as stupid as what that remark gave you out to be. Please assure us that we merely misunderstood you.
You can think it is BS if you want to. I don't care. It is fact
If it is "fact," then there was solidly backed-up independedn evidence.

To claim that a "because I say so" posatulation somehow is a fact without any actual evidence is, of course, outright lying. Are you a liar?
and no matter how much liberals, atheists, and communists democrats hate it, you can't change it... By fact I mean that the founding fathers based alot of their decisions upon the Christian religion.
Some did, some didn't. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is the Establishment Clause. Your attempt at pretending that it doesn't exist shows you to be either dishonest or so stuck in wishful thinking that you will reject reality for your wishful thiniing and beliefs to the contrary.

There is a name for that. It is called "DELUSION."

You want proof, dig for it, it's there.
Oh, another dishonest conservative ploy. Make a false claim ,a dn then make it the other side's job to disprove the lie. So we now have FURTHER evidence of how dishonest you are. Shame on you. But perhaps Conservatives now feel that outright lying is a family value?
Yes I have read the constitution (isn't this flaming).
So you surely are not claiming that the Establishment Clause doesn't exist, are you?
It has been taken so far out of context by libs, claiming that religion never played any part of the founding decision of this country.
What base religion played in the founding is completely irrelevant. What DOES matter is what the law says. yes, I am aware that the law goes against what you would want, and that you therefore have to pull on all these extra-legal points to even HAVE a point, never mind how contrived and contradictory to the US Constitution text itself. It is always easy to recognize when people like you are trying to be deceptive. You start going to all sorts of irrelevant sources, bringing up all sorts of irrelevant points while completely ignoring the actual law itself.

I am saddened and disappointed by the dishonesty of your arguments, but I am not surprised. That should tell you something about how our experience with conservative lies and deceptions is common-place, how conservatives so often bear False Witness. Not that I expect it to bother you any, your post already have shown such a lack of honesty and arguments in good faith that you simply can not credibly claim to want an honest discussion. So be it.

Well, enough of this. I can't be bothered spending much time on liars and dishonest cheats.
 
steen said:
Etc, etc. This obviously was lifted from somewhere, somewhere you forgot to credit which surely is a copyright violation. Funny how conservatives apparently now believe that private property should be abolished? Kind of a commie thing to do
Etc, etc, pages of stuff, much of it from BEFORE the US COnstitution was ratified, and some of these directly ILLEGAL per the Constitution, such as this part:
That, of course directly violates the US Constitution. That is clear evidence that all the little irrelevant things, many of which is even from before the Declaration of Independence, whatever relevance you thought that might have, are pintless. What DOES matter is what the US Constitution says is the Establishment Clause:


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

So you can ramble and yammer about rights of religion and whatnot, but THIS is the only thing that matters. The Government can NOT legally establish a religion in the US, it can not impose one religion as the recognized one, and not inflict its practices on others.

All the rest of your attempts at presenting your wishful thinking as "fact," merely shows how dishonest the theocrats are. Yes, you want to circumvent the US Constitution because it doesn't allow you to impose on others, and you hate it. You want it to not be so.

Your un-American disrespect for the foundation for what makes us all Americans is duly noted. The anti-patriotism of the fundie rightwing theocrats is duly noted in posts like your and those of your fellow conservative fundies.

Everything between the name calling does not make since. It is kinda funny that the writers of the constitution made it illegal for themselves to hold office because of their beliefs. You are completely taking the constitution way out of context.

If you don't want anything to do with religion in schools with something once called patriotic then enroll your kids or yourself in a private school or home school them. Something that has worked for the past several decades needs not be changed. I'm not even going about this in a religious point of view, but as an American point of view.

It is the discusting deceitfull anti American actions of your liberal party that will remove all rights to own anything. The actions of your beloved ACLU and it's communistic views will remove all sovereignty of this great nation. This pathetic robin hood "spread the wealth" attitude takes away the livelyhood of the people who bust their rear ends to make a decent living and give it to the good for nothing lazy people with no desire to do anything for them selves attitude will ruin this country. I happen to like my house, my land, and my successful business and want to keep it that way, without government involvement.
 
Not a Democrat said:
Everything between the name calling does not make since. It is kinda funny that the writers of the constitution made it illegal for themselves to hold office because of their beliefs. You are completely taking the constitution way out of context.

If you don't want anything to do with religion in schools with something once called patriotic then enroll your kids or yourself in a private school or home school them. Something that has worked for the past several decades needs not be changed. I'm not even going about this in a religious point of view, but as an American point of view.

It is the discusting deceitfull anti American actions of your liberal party that will remove all rights to own anything. The actions of your beloved ACLU and it's communistic views will remove all sovereignty of this great nation. This pathetic robin hood "spread the wealth" attitude takes away the livelyhood of the people who bust their rear ends to make a decent living and give it to the good for nothing lazy people with no desire to do anything for them selves attitude will ruin this country. I happen to like my house, my land, and my successful business and want to keep it that way, without government involvement.
There sure are a lot of non-sequitors in there.

P.S. You'll want to change your sig line. Apparently, the host of your pic doesn't appreciate the hotlinking.
 
steen said:
Hmm, that sure is illogical. It means that he reocgnized that you had NOT written it, but that you didn't attributre the source

That is plagiarism, and it is also a copyright violation. It measn that you are dishonest. Are conservatives dishonest? Is it ONLY YOU who are dishonest? Or was it merely an oversight that you "forgot" to list the source?
Really? That is a fascinating claim. If the same info shows up on several sites that copy from each oither, then the information automatically is "100% fact"? That sounds very illogical and even downright stupid. So please elaborate on that cliam of your, so we can be sure that you are NOT as stupid as what that remark gave you out to be. Please assure us that we merely misunderstood you.
If it is "fact," then there was solidly backed-up independedn evidence.

To claim that a "because I say so" posatulation somehow is a fact without any actual evidence is, of course, outright lying. Are you a liar?
Some did, some didn't. That's irrelevant. What IS relevant is the Establishment Clause. Your attempt at pretending that it doesn't exist shows you to be either dishonest or so stuck in wishful thinking that you will reject reality for your wishful thiniing and beliefs to the contrary.

There is a name for that. It is called "DELUSION."

Oh, another dishonest conservative ploy. Make a false claim ,a dn then make it the other side's job to disprove the lie. So we now have FURTHER evidence of how dishonest you are. Shame on you. But perhaps Conservatives now feel that outright lying is a family value?
So you surely are not claiming that the Establishment Clause doesn't exist, are you?
What base religion played in the founding is completely irrelevant. What DOES matter is what the law says. yes, I am aware that the law goes against what you would want, and that you therefore have to pull on all these extra-legal points to even HAVE a point, never mind how contrived and contradictory to the US Constitution text itself. It is always easy to recognize when people like you are trying to be deceptive. You start going to all sorts of irrelevant sources, bringing up all sorts of irrelevant points while completely ignoring the actual law itself.

I am saddened and disappointed by the dishonesty of your arguments, but I am not surprised. That should tell you something about how our experience with conservative lies and deceptions is common-place, how conservatives so often bear False Witness. Not that I expect it to bother you any, your post already have shown such a lack of honesty and arguments in good faith that you simply can not credibly claim to want an honest discussion. So be it.

Well, enough of this. I can't be bothered spending much time on liars and dishonest cheats.

You obviously don't care about what the law says. I'm sorry to hear that I upset you so terribly. Another example of lack of factual information proves my point. Typical Liberal. :lol: Like America as we are or go to France. They hate America as much as you do.
 
Kelzie said:
[mod mode]

Calm down. I didn't hit ya. Just a friendly little reminder. :2wave:

If you believe that someone was flaming, there's a little triangle with an exclamation point inside that you can use to report the post (it's on the bottom left), and the mod team will look over it.

[/mod mode]

I'm calm. I 've gotten some PMs for it already. No prob..

Won't happen again.:mrgreen:
 
Only the Supreme court Makes law for the,Nation ! According to experts this judges authority .Only covers the 2 northern California school districts involved in the case.
If I was the principals of those schools I would continue the pledge as is.
 
Not a Democrat said:
Everything between the name calling does not make since. It is kinda funny that the writers of the constitution made it illegal for themselves to hold office because of their beliefs.
How so? Nothing prohibited Christians from holding office. It was forbidden to INSIST that they were Christians. Perhaps you misread that part? I hope so, because your argument simply doesn't make sense otherwise. Unless you were mistaken, your post is dingbat.
You are completely taking the constitution way out of context.
How so? The US Constitution specified that it was illegal to require a religious affiliation in order to hold office. Some of the examples you cited in your irrelevant, long example were about office holders being required to be of a religion. So how am I taking anything out fo context by pointiong out that such requirements went against what was Established in the US Constitution?

You know, you really aren't making that much sense. Is it kind of late where you are and past your normal bedtime or something?
If you don't want anything to do with religion in schools with something once called patriotic then enroll your kids or yourself in a private school or home school them.
HUH? You REALLY aren't making sense here. What is it exactly you are trying to say here?

Are you saying that if I don't want my kids' Constitutional rights violated, then I need to send my kids to a private school? Are you saying that by sending them to public school, I should expect to have their Constuitutional rights violated? That sure is how your post read, and that truly is bizzare and warped.

So please clarify, because as I read it, your point is incredibly dumb.

Something that has worked for the past several decades needs not be changed. I'm not even going about this in a religious point of view, but as an American point of view.
The American view is that the US Constitution is the foundation for our rights and duties as American Citizens. So what works is what follows the US Constitution. IF you want to operate outside the US Constitution, feel free to do so, but don't operate in the public sphere where you will violate others Constitutional rights.
It is the discusting deceitfull anti American actions of your liberal party that will remove all rights to own anything.
Huh? You are talking about communism, not about liberals. MUST you continue to display such an amazing level of ignorance. Is there ANYTHING that you actually understand and know about. The topics you have delved into sofar has only underscored that you ARE ignorant of these areas.

The actions of your beloved ACLU and it's communistic views will remove all sovereignty of this great nation.
Well, THAT is an interesting viewpoint. The ACLU mission is to challenge unconstitutional laws.Your opposition to them is an opposition to the US Constitution. So I was right in my suspicion. You ARE against the US Constitution.

Well, golly gee, why am I not surprised, given your complete disregard for its components, such as the Establishment Clause.

Are ALL fundie conservatives as unpatriotic as you are in your spitting on the US Constitution?
 
Conservative qualities of projection and anti-Constitutionalism

Not a Democrat said:
You obviously don't care about what the law says.
Really? I actually quote the law and deal with what the law says. Your claim that your wishful thinking trumps the law is much more an indication of rejection of the law.

That you then accuse me of that has a name. In the mental health field, it is called "projection," this accusing others of what you yourself are doing.

But hey, continue your shining example of the general quality of Conservatives. I like the image you project of Conservatives :2razz:
 
Boy, what a laughable attempt this is. Not a Democrat, watch as I tear this to shreds with reason.

Not a Democrat said:
Proof

A careful look into the past reveals landmarks which were essential in guiding America along the pathway that led us to where we are today. More often than not, at each one of these landmarks, there also appears irrefutable evidence that a sense of divine destiny accompanied the most important events of our history.

Here in part are some of these landmarks:

1490-1492 - Columbus' commission was given to set out to find a new world.

According to Columbus' personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to "bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. .... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies ... I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely ... No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service." (Columbus' Book of Prophecies)

April 10, 1606 - The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

"To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God."

November 3, 1620 - King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

"In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty."

November 11, 1620 - The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

"For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith ... doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick."

March 4, 1629 - The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

"For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion.."

January 14, 1638 - The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

"To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe..."

August 4, 1639 - The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

"Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God..."

April 3, 1644 - The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

"That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses ... be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction ..."

April 21, 1649 - The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

"Be it therefor ... enacted ... that no person or persons whatsoever within this province ... professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall ... henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) ... in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof ..."

April 25, 1689 - The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

"Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government ... therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God ..."

May 20, 1775 - North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

"We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress."

Summer 12, 1775 - Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

"And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day."


All of this up to here means absolutely nothing. This has nothing to do with the formation of our Constitution. Columbus and the Puritans did not and had no intention of forming the USA. Our Constitution was and is what this country is based on and I can find nothing in it which tells it's citizens to pray and confess their sins.

Summer 2-4, 1776 - Declaration of Independence written and signed.

"We hold these truths ... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights ... appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world ... And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..."

The Creator/Nature's God/Divine Providence Is much too generic to be considered the Christian God and the adjective "Nature's" aptly describes the Deist God.

September 17, 1787 - The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 - James Madison, the "architect" of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."


That many framers were Christians has no bearing on the fact that God, Christianity, and the Bible, were kept out of the Constitution. They were smart enough not to make the same mistake of the colonies and Europe and include them into the Constitution since they had seen the results over and over. So 11 out of 13 states blatantly violated the part which says there is no religious test for public office. Some states also go against the Constitution (though I believe in most cases acknowledgement of God or Divine Providence is in the preamble which has no legal weight whatsoever). Your point is...? That Madison quote was totally made up by David Barton of Wallbuilders to prove this is a Christian nation. Apparently, this is so obviously true he had to resort to lying and so you might want to check your sources before giving false information. Oops. :3oops:
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/boston2.htm
Here's a quote by James Madison, "During almost fifteen centuries the legal establishment of Christianity has been upon trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
Washington was hardly the church-going, pious Christian you wish he was. He never took communion, didn't regularly go to church (stopped going after retirement), didn't kneel when praying and didn't celebrate the Lord's Supper. His adopted daughter said, "He was not one of those who act or pray 'that they may be seen of men.' He communed with his God in secret." Of course, there are a good number of the Founding Fathers who, if we were to quote them, would give us a mixed sense on what their religious views were. Having a quote war is, in the end, pointless. These men came to a compromise;our Constitution. If we want to know if this is a Christian nation we need look no further. When we do look at it we see no mention of religion except for two brief sections; one, in 1st amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereo" and another which forbids religious tests for public office. The silence of Christianity in that document is deafening and deliberate. If it was their intention to form a Christian government, they couldn't have done a worse job. From a secular Constitution we have a secular government which has allowed religion and non-religion to flourish freely. Why anyone would want a Christian government is something I just can't comprehend. (please note I had to trim some quotes from the last reply to fit this post, look at the original to see more)
 
Sorry if anyone made these points before….I’m lazy and I've only briefly skimmed the previous 28 pages…..

Now, I don’t care what you believe in, because the first amendment entitles you to whatever superstitions float your boat, same as it does for me. Since there are a number of people who do not believe in God, doesn’t this mean there are portions of our country that are not “under God?”

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the pledge of allegiance the official way we say that we are loyal to our country? What does God have to do with being loyal to your country? I’ve met people completely suffused in religion that are unshakably loyal to the United States. I’ve also met people so adamantly atheist, I fully expect them to use their last breath to mock a priest trying to save their soul; these people are just as loyal to their country as anyone else. (and I have to caution you not to dare to question their national pride while they are nearby) It is quite obvious to me that faith has nothing to do with patriotism; which makes me question why there is a reference to God in a promise that exists for the sole purpose of affirming one’s patriotism.

What does “under God” mean anyway? From my atheistic perspective, a country being “under God” signifies that all actions taken by that country are done with God’s approval.
You can spout that tripe about how the vast majority of the population beliefs in God, and “under God” simply shows their faith in a higher being, but that still doesn’t address that fact that the pledge of allegiance exists for nothing but to claim loyalty to your nation, you know…to PLEDGE your ALLEGIANCE.

While the actions of the United States of America are (theoretically) undertaken to advance the aggregate goals of its population (of which the vast majority believes in God), being an American citizen in no way obligates me as an individual to work towards upholding the dictates of this God. (aside from those that coincide with universally agreed upon principles) By including “under God” in the pledge of allegiance, you imply that being loyal to our country means being loyal to this being.


Something I’ve been wondering…..if you throw “under God” into the pledge simply as a curtsey the religious beliefs of masses, wouldn’t “under Gods” be a much more accurate representation of their diverse opinions? When I hear the Christian majority claim “under God” ambiguously represents all the myriad beliefs out there, I can’t help myself….I just have to call bullshit.
 
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If you don't like the phrase "under God" just don't say it. BTW how many of you have said the okedge in the past five years? I haven't said it for decades and except for my grandchildren I don't know any one who has said it since grammar school.
 
However much you resent any deference to a diety, the fact remains that the United States was founded with a diety in mind. This would suggest that both historically and culturally, the phrase 'under God' is appropriate in the Pledge. To wit:

America's founders did not intend for there to be a separation of God and
state, as shown by the fact that all 50 states acknowledge God in their
state constitutions:

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the
favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following
Constitution ..

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to
those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ..

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to
Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful
to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California,
grateful to Almighty God for our freedom .

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe .

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with
gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature,
the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the
dictates of their consciences .

Florida 1845, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to
Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this
Constitution...

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection
and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
Guidance . establish this Constitution

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ..

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to
Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of
government

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the
Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence
on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God
for our civil and religious privileges . establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to
Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties...

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ..

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine .. acknowledging with grateful
hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us
an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful
to Almighty God or our civil and religious liberty...

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of
the Universe...in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly
imploring His direction ...

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
perpetuate its blessings

Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention
assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ..
establish this Constitution ..

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom .. establish this Constitution

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom . establish this Constitution ..

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural
and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own
conscience .

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so
long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors
.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ..

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings .

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina,
grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil,
political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon
Him for the continuance of those

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our
common

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to
secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure
in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of
their consciences .

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island
grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South
Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this
Constitution

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties . establish this

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible
right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their
conscience...

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging,
with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we
establish this Constitution .

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe
our Creator . can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual
duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each
other...

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington,
grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain
this Constitution .

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the
blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West
Virginia .. reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty
God for our freedom, domestic tranquility

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this
Constitution .

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one
is faced with the prospect that maybe, just maybe, the ACLU and the
out-of-control federal courts are wrong!

And finally, reflecting the sentiment of the founder of our Constitution: "Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants."--William Penn
 
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