View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #981
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002
    The founding fathers argument is moot. It doesn't matter what dead people thought. All that matters is what we think today. Using the founding fathers argument we shouldn't even have a pledge since we didn't have one at the inception of the country. The pledge is pointless.

    The FF's wrote this funny thing called a "Constitution". It's a physical record of what they thought when it was ratified. So, yeah, it matters what those men thought.

    And no, it's not an accident that they didn't have a pledge of allegiance.

    And yes, the pledge is pointless, rendered even more so by the imposition of those stupid lying "under god" words.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    So yes, our founding fathers would be all over the political map if they were alive today.
    And those that felt that forcing a stupid poem down the throats of a free people would be as stupid as those that actually doing it today.

    Needless to say, though, enough states thought the First Amendment prohibition against the federal government putting stupid religious words in stupid flag selling poems was a good idea that the Amendment was ratified back then.

    I doubt if we'd find enough intelligent people to protect us from the same mistakes today.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I guess maybe what "patriotism" means to you is different than what it means to me. To me it's love of ones country.
    That's a meaningless tautology if you don't define "country." The land under your feet? The government? Our country's history? The people who live here?

    I don't find any of those things particularly unique in the case of the United States...There are more beautiful patches of land, more honest and better functioning governments, places with less blood in their history, and more friendly societies elsewhere in the world. That doesn't make any of them the "best," but I don't see what's unique to the United States about any of those characteristics.

    The only thing that I might say I love about this country specifically is the US Constitution and its ideas of liberty...which include, among other things, the idea that government shouldn't take sides on religious issues like declaring we're "one nation under God."
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    That's a meaningless tautology if you don't define "country." The land under your feet? The government? Our country's history? The people who live here?
    My country is easily defined as the USA.


    I don't find any of those things particularly unique in the case of the United States...There are more beautiful patches of land, more honest and better functioning governments, places with less blood in their history, and more friendly societies elsewhere in the world. That doesn't make any of them the "best," but I don't see what's unique to the United States about any of those characteristics.
    Well there are more beautiful houses than mine on bigger and more beautiful pieces of land than mine but my house is still the house I love the most. I don't get what's hard to understand about that.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    For many it's not even about the "under God" it's about the pledge in general. They don't want "their" children pledging anything.
    Not as part of a government sanctioned community ceremony, no. Morally, it's in the same class as sticking one's right arm in the sky and shouting "Sieg Heil!"

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    In my opinion it's really sad.
    Then cry. I'm making little girls that can think, not robots.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    But like I said why not go after the "In God We Trust" money first? Why are our schools the guinea pigs for liberal ideals?
    Why our schools guinea pigs for fascist ideals? Why not teach the children how to think, how to evaluate facts, how to consider options, and how to choose? That's not a "liberal" ideal, it's called "maturity".

    As for the money, that lie printed on that is under condiseration, also.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    You want God completely removed from the government.
    No. I want delusions of god removed from government. It's not possible to remove god from government because there is no god, and hence no god in government.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Then fight for that first.....then go after the schools. Or is it easier to brainwash the youth vs the parents?
    Well, yeah, it's the brainwashed parents that forced the adulteration of the flag selling poem in the first place. They must have figured it's pretty easy to brainwash kids back then. Of course, mothers do start lying to their kids about god when they're just little infants, don't they?

    Except for my girls. They find the concept of god to be truly bizarre. Which it is.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Except there is a problem. Christianity is under attack in our country and evidence of this is everywhere.
    Hey, if it doesn't make any sense, it should be attacked until it goes away, or until it makes sense. Since Christianity can never make sense to the sane, there's no reason to let it be.

    But don't feel picked on. Don't think Christianity is special. That rule applies to all religions, since they're all equally silly to the sane.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    George Bush is often put down for his religious beliefs.
    Oh, I don't need to make fun of Bush's religious delusions to make fun of him, and I'm not even a Democrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    A member of the supreme court was stopped on the steps of his church while a reporter tried to bait him into an argument over his religious beliefs.
    So? The man makes decisions regarding MY life. Why shouldn't he be expected to be sane? Why should we trust them to keep their personal biases out of their legal decisions. The Judiciary has done as much damage to the Constitution as the other two branches combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Every year more stores and malls are sporting holiday trees vs Christmas trees.
    Well, welcome to reality. Explain what a "christmas tree" has to do with the gospel as recorded in Matt, Luke, Jack, and Mark? It doesn't. It's a pagan winter symbol celebrating the winter solstice.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    It's total BS. Christians had to protest Lowe's last year because for the first time their tree lot was selling holiday trees vs Christmas trees and it pissed people off.
    And then they want the sane people to take them seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    To say that there are not fanatics out there who want to see religion banned all together is wrong.
    Yes, those people that want it banned are just as nuts as those that follow a religion. The sane people just want the religiously deluded to keep their illnesses to themselves and not become sources of new infection.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    The sick part is that the attack is generally specifically against Christianity or Judism.
    Well, that is one of the nice things about living in a free country. Ever wonder what happens to people who deny Islam in Mecca?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Anotherwards
    Perhaps you mean "In other words"? Hmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    it's not altogether uncommon to see a liberal bashing christianity while completely supporting the muslim religion. There is something going on there. It's weird.
    That's because not only is liberalism a religion, it's full religion complete with rites and delusions and an unshakable belief that enough money will prove that they're silly ideas are right.

  7. #987
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    [QUOTE=talloulou]What's the big deal....when you are in another country you respect their customs.[/qoute]

    You don't pledge allegiance to a country unless you mean it. That's sort of the whole point, isn't it? If it means nothing, why are teachers required to parrot it? And if it means nothing, then there's no problem with removing those stupid "under god" words, either, right?

    I don't pledge allegiance to any other country, and I don't bother to stand, in this country, when other countries national anthems are being played at public events. If I was in their country, freely, I would stand in respect, or do the macarena if that's what was appropriate, but I would NOT claim an allegiance not felt.

    Then again, I guess I'm not built to be a prostitute.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Oooh geez....Well you know I never actually figured out what crimes Satan commits in the bible.
    The Sedition Act.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    God commits tons of acts of violence. God advocates genocide.
    Was that before or after he imposed the Ten Commandments?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Yet what does Satan do in the bible other than advising people they don't necessarily have to listen to God???? Hmmmm???? The snake tells Adam and Eve they won't die if they eat from the tree knowledge. God told them they would die. They didn't die! The serpant told them the truth. I always found that interesting....
    Adam and Eve had a very simple religion. Their only duty was not to eat the forbidden fruit.

    The Serpent tricked Adam and Eve into recognizing him as their authority on religious matters thereby rejecting God's authority over his own religion. They should have ignored the religious advice of the Serpent and listened only to God.

    The lesson of Adam and Eve is don't even listen to government advice on religion even if it appears to be good advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Satan tries to tempt Jesus out of dying on the cross....what's so wrong with that????
    He was not authorized to give religious advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Just playing Devil's advocate but honestly I find the old testament God to be way more horrifying than the "Satan" of the bible.
    I do like Thomas Jefferson did and only read what Jesus said.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    And I had some very good deviled eggs this weekend.
    Well, at least it wasn't Devil worship.

    FVF

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I really see a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

    Also the "under God" in the pledge is very undefined. God could mean anything in that pledge. There is nothing to suggests the term represents the Christian God? So what's the problem?

    And basically my biggest problem with liberals trying to change anything in the schools comes from the knowledge that liberals have already severely damaged our public school system.
    To your first line above, these two rights are the same thing. Both must exist in this country.

    To the 'under God,' it is very defined. God in the pledge means the supernatural God that some people believe in. Doesn't matter if its the Christian God, it is the God that monotheists worship, and His religion should not be established in this country.

    I'm not all that liberal, except on personal rights, but I have to respond to your last paragraph with the fact that many Conservatives want to substitute religious training for at least one science subject in public schools. This would be very damaging, and could make our schools substandard to some foreign schools, with which President Bush wants us to compete.

    Also, I hate when there is only one person arguing a subject that so many agree with her on, and they don't participate. Not your fault, I just wish they would come out and play too.
    Do not write in this space!

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by tryreading
    I'm not all that liberal, except on personal rights, but I have to respond to your last paragraph with the fact that many Conservatives want to substitute religious training for at least one science subject in public schools. This would be very damaging, and could make our schools substandard to some foreign schools, with which President Bush wants us to compete.
    Well if you are talking some sort of religous elective that teaches about different relgiions as an elective vs. cooking or woodshop in jr high or high school I don't have a problem with that.

    However replacing science with religion I'm completely against.

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