View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
Page 98 of 107 FirstFirst ... 488896979899100 ... LastLast
Results 971 to 980 of 1064

Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #971
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I point out the christian bashing because it's so obvious. And I'm not in to seeing anyone bashed because of their relgious beliefs.
    No it isn't. Sure, there are a few atheists that have problems with Christians but the majority do not. This phenomenon of Christian victimhood is largely an invention of the religious right. The 80% of Americans that are Christians are hardly being oppressed by the 20% that aren't, just because we don't want government taking sides on religious matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Also many of the attempts to remove religion from the public square are in my opinion ridiculous.
    Some of them are, others (like the Pledge or currency) are not. If a town wants to have a nativity scene, I don't care. It's mainly just a decoration. When the government officially declares that we're one nation under God, or that in God we trust, there is no explanation for this other than the government has taken sides on religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I really see a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion. I'm not religious yet public religious displays don't bother me! Why should they? Unless the government is demanding that I recognize God or a certain God or their definition of God why should I care?
    Then what would be the tragedy in taking "Under God" out of the Pledge or "In God We Trust" off the money? That's just being neutral, it's not saying that we are NOT a nation under God or that we DON'T trust in God.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Also the "under God" in the pledge is very undefined. God could mean anything in that pledge. There is nothing to suggests the term represents the Christian God? So what's the problem?
    It's still supporting the religion of theism.

    And basically my biggest problem with liberals trying to change anything in the schools comes from the knowledge that liberals have already severely damaged our public school system. So yeah I'd like to see them try to change something else....you know like the money....and leave the kids in school alone for a bit so they can actually learn something. If they are really worried about kids why don't they try to change the fact that sooooo many kids can't pass a WASL exam in 11th grade when the test is written at an 8th grade level? See I worry about crap like that vs the undefined vague phrase "under God" in the pledge. But then again I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't mind my child hearing the phrase God or accidently picking up some patriotism for their counrty!
    The government-run monopoly of education that squelches innovation and competition is a separate matter, and has nothing to do with the Pledge of Allegiance. Furthermore, you already know this fully well and are just using this as a strawman.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #972
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-27-11 @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar


    Then what would be the tragedy in taking "Under God" out of the Pledge or "In God We Trust" off the money? That's just being neutral, it's not saying that we are NOT a nation under God or that we DON'T trust in God.
    There is no tragedy. I wouldn't care if they changed the money or lost the "under God" in the pledge. I think the greater tragedy is in the idea that patriotism is a "bad" thing or a dirty word.That really burns me up a bit. The God thing doesn't really bother me one way or the other except that there are so many more important things to be concerned about when it comes to our schools.

  3. #973
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I think the greater tragedy is in the idea that patriotism is a "bad" thing or a dirty word.
    You mentioned that you don't believe patriotism means that one thinks his own nation is the best or that all others are bad; that it simply means that one looks out for his own nation first, just as one looks out for his family first.

    Unfortunately, the analogy does not hold. First of all, one knows one's family members and probably loves them. One does not know or love "the American people" as a whole.

    Furthermore, what makes you think that the analogy of looking-out-for-your-own-kind-first holds for patriotism, but not, say, racism? Substitute the word "white" for "American" and see how it sounds. How is that any different? Both cultivate an "us versus them" mentality, both categorize people into arbitrary groups that they have no control over, and taken to their logical conclusions both assume that one's own group is more important than all others.

    Looking out for one's own family before others is admirable. I don't see how looking out for one's race, or one's religion, or one's country before all others is anything other than completely reprehensible.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #974
    The Left Roars Back, meow
    hipsterdufus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    08-07-16 @ 09:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    3,317

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I think the pledge of allegiance in the morning is nice and teaches kids respect for their country and pride in their country. Clearly not everyone believes pride and respect for ones country is good.
    Where I work, we have a substantial number of educators and students who aren't citizens of the US. You don't have to be a citizen of the US to go to a public school, nor do you have to be one to be an educator at a US school.

    Mind you, these students aren't "illegals" - most are children of professionals from India, Pakistan, Russia, China or Japan.

    It's very awkward for these non-Americans to be put in a position to "pledge allegiance" to a country that is not their own every morning - god or no god.
    Would you like to require those people to pledge their allegiance to the US just because they're here?

    Or put it this way, let's say you work for Lenovo (A Chinese Company that bought a big chunk of IBM) Lenovo is moving their headquarters to China. My cousin was asked to move to China for 3 years while Lenovo sets up shop. Would you want his children , or yours, to "pledge allegiance" to the Chinese Government every morning?

  5. #975
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-27-11 @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by hipsterdufus
    Where I work, we have a substantial number of educators and students who aren't citizens of the US. You don't have to be a citizen of the US to go to a public school, nor do you have to be one to be an educator at a US school.

    Mind you, these students aren't "illegals" - most are children of professionals from India, Pakistan, Russia, China or Japan.

    It's very awkward for these non-Americans to be put in a position to "pledge allegiance" to a country that is not their own every morning - god or no god.
    Would you like to require those people to pledge their allegiance to the US just because they're here?

    Or put it this way, let's say you work for Lenovo (A Chinese Company that bought a big chunk of IBM) Lenovo is moving their headquarters to China. My cousin was asked to move to China for 3 years while Lenovo sets up shop. Would you want his children , or yours, to "pledge allegiance" to the Chinese Government every morning?
    What's the big deal....when you are in another country you respect their customs. I guarantee you that if I moved my family to China we would probably have to do all kinds of things we wouldn't have to do here. People understand that and get over it.

    Look at the whole Mexico illegal alien thing. Do you know even if you have a Visa to be in Mexico legally you cannot protest. If you protest in the street you will be deported from Mexico whether your visa is valid or not. But does that stop the Mexican government from commenting on why we in the US should tolerate illegals protesting in the streets???? Nope. That's 'cause the world is full of hypocrites. If my kids were in another country due to the fact that I willingly moved them there I would have no problem with them learning the customs and following traditions in schools. If I did.....then I'd move. That simple.

    Certainly you are not suggesting we change our traditions for people who are not even citizens????? That's absurd. And that gets back to my whole point on the patriotism thing.

  6. #976
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-27-11 @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    Looking out for one's own family before others is admirable. I don't see how looking out for one's race, or one's religion, or one's country before all others is anything other than completely reprehensible.

    Well lucky for you that other men and women will work their assssses off to keep you safe should someone attack our soil. And lucky for you that you don't even have to give a crap for that to happen. That's why being American is great....and I do love my country. And yeah if it ever came down to us or France I'd go with us. When I hear Toby Keith singing about "the american way" and "putting boots in peoples assessss" I get all full of pride. I guess I'm a real sicko that way.

  7. #977
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    Well lucky for you that other men and women will work their assssses off to keep you safe should someone attack our soil.
    Strawman. Governments can and should maintain a military to defend themselves. That has nothing to do with patriotism. One can be in the military for the money or the prestige or the job security without being a patriot. Similarly, one can be full of those knee-jerk nationalist impulses and not serve in the military.

    You're equating two completely separate things.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    And lucky for you that you don't even have to give a crap for that to happen.
    Who says I don't give a crap, just because I don't hold a random person on the other side of this country in higher esteem than a random person on the other side of the world? I'm on a political forum, aren't I?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    That's why being American is great....and I do love my country. And yeah if it ever came down to us or France I'd go with us.
    What on earth does that have to do with patriotism?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  8. #978
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    Well, I might argue that there is a difference between having the nation as a whole or the government if you will, containing elements of religion versus the entire legislative body endorsing or forcing individuals to practice a certain religion. For example, over in England there are many art forms, symbols, figures, etc. that are reminiscent of a monarchy. However, England does not currently still have a monarchy, nor do these decorations force any of the English people to live under one.
    It's just not a good idea to start mixing in religion in government (which has taken place) as you can clearly see there are a good number of Christians who say what there is now is not enough and are pushing for more religion in the government. It is not worth the risk. People are free to express themselves religiously or not however they want without any government involvement needed. What more could one ask for?
    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
    - Thomas Paine


    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    - Thomas Jefferson


    "Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do."
    - Robert G. Ingersoll

  9. #979
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-27-11 @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    Strawman. Governments can and should maintain a military to defend themselves. That has nothing to do with patriotism. One can be in the military for the money or the prestige or the job security without being a patriot. Similarly, one can be full of those knee-jerk nationalist impulses and not serve in the military.

    You're equating two completely separate things.



    Who says I don't give a crap, just because I don't hold a random person on the other side of this country in higher esteem than a random person on the other side of the world? I'm on a political forum, aren't I?



    What on earth does that have to do with patriotism?
    I guess maybe what "patriotism" means to you is different than what it means to me. To me it's love of ones country.

  10. #980
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I guess maybe what "patriotism" means to you is different than what it means to me. To me it's love of ones country.
    How can you love it if you don't even understand the very foundation upon which this country was built? I suggest reading and comprehending our Constitution and Bill of Rights. That goes for everyone.
    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
    - Thomas Paine


    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    - Thomas Jefferson


    "Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do."
    - Robert G. Ingersoll

Page 98 of 107 FirstFirst ... 488896979899100 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •