View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    So, our founding fathers were geniuses who knew the majority of people are stupid? I agree they were smart but some of them had conservative views, nonetheless. I suggest you look at this quote by Alexander Hamilton:

    "It is a harsh doctrine that men grow wicked as they improve and enlighten their minds."

    I would say that Hamilton, if he were alive today, would probably be in favor of God in our pledge, considering he had advocated the creation of a national Christian church. You obviously don't agree with this concept, which means you've just contradicted yourself. Unless of course you think we should have a national church.

    So you can't lump all of our founding fathers into one category, they all had different views. If they were alive today and debating, there'd be just as much crossfire as there was back then. Considering some of them believed in dueling, it'd probably be much worse than how our politicans behave nowadays...
    They were "conservative", hey? Was that before, or after they created a government the likes of which had never before been seen on the face of the earth?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    The Laws Of The Early Republic Required Violation Of The Ten Commandments

    The Federal Government, from its initial establishment in 1788, pursued a system of causing the mail to be transported on the Sabbath. This was a blatant violation of the Ten Commandments and proof that the founders were all infidels and heathens who disowned God.

    (Source of Information: American State Papers, 13th Congress, 3rd Session, Post Office Department, Volume 1, Page 17, Senate Report No. 30 on Sunday Mails, Communicated to the Senate, January 27, 1815 by Mr. Daggett.)

    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...7.db&recNum=52

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    The founding fathers argument is moot. It doesn't matter what dead people thought. All that matters is what we think today. Using the founding fathers argument we shouldn't even have a pledge since we didn't have one at the inception of the country. The pledge is pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Does the Constitutionís prohibition against making laws respecting an establishment of religion prohibit the government from making a law that violates or requires the violation of one of the Ten Commandments? For example, would a law requiring the U. S. Mail to be transported on Sunday violate the establishment clause?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    As a conservative/libertarian, I believe in strict separation of church and state, but I don't believe in judicial activism. There's nothing Unconstitutional about kids reciting The Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase "under God", but it's not a good idea to force them to do it.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg
    As a conservative/libertarian, I believe in strict separation of church and state, but I don't believe in judicial activism. There's nothing Unconstitutional about kids reciting The Pledge of Allegiance with the phrase "under God", but it's not a good idea to force them to do it.
    What noble principle of religious liberty did you apply to arrive at that conclusion? Please show me where Congress, during the the first half century of our Republic, ever assumed legislative authority over the people's religion.

    Fred

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    They were "conservative", hey? Was that before, or after they created a government the likes of which had never before been seen on the face of the earth?
    Well, basically, you had the Federalists on one side, mostly from New England save Georgia, who were very conservative. When I say conservative in this context, I don't mean in precisely the same sense as we view it today. But they were definitely not liberal in the sense that we think the term to mean today either. The Federalists favored finance, banking, business, and the military. This is kind of like the Republican party is today. They also favored a strong central government. Most of them probably would favor at least some mention of God in our nation government. This is because most of them favored European societies, which had traditionally blended government with religion. It wasn't actually that they wanted to oppress people though. They viewed Europe, with all it's religious elements, as just sort of like a cultural thing. During the time of the revolution, people weren't actually religiously oppressed to an extreme like Patrick Henry or Sam Adams tried to convery to the masses. When Napoleon came to power there was persecution, yes, but it wasn't really over religion. It was the Democratic-Federalists, people like Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin, who thought more like you do. The articles of Confederacy were very libertarian, very extremely so.

    So yes, our founding fathers would be all over the political map if they were alive today. Most people don't know this but in New England after the American Revolution, "Royalists" to King George III were really persecuted. They had their homes taken away, their money taken away, and sometimes their families killed. I don't imply that I would have supported England during the Revolutionary War, heavens no. I just mean that the country was very divided at that time and people had very mixed views.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    For many it's not even about the "under God" it's about the pledge in general. They don't want "their" children pledging anything. In my opinion it's really sad. But like I said why not go after the "In God We Trust" money first? Why are our schools the guinea pigs for liberal ideals? You want God completely removed from the government. Then fight for that first.....then go after the schools. Or is it easier to brainwash the youth vs the parents?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    . Most of them probably would favor at least some mention of God in our nation government.
    The continuing problem is that many, when confronted with the fact that it isn't legal to place their religious items on public property, maintain that some want all sign and mention of religion banned from government. But all we want is to keep religious encroachment out of government. George Bush ends his speeches with 'God bless America.' That is God in the government, and it is perfectly legal. No problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    I would say that Hamilton, if he were alive today, would probably be in favor of God in our pledge, considering he had advocated the creation of a national Christian church. You obviously don't agree with this concept, which means you've just contradicted yourself. Unless of course you think we should have a national church.
    Alexander Hamilton wanted to form our government exactly like the government we had just broken from. He said something to the effect of not being able to improve on the best. He is never a good source to cite based on freedom of religion because he did not want it. His United States would have had a national religion. But more sensible heads prevailed, thank God.
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    For many it's not even about the "under God" it's about the pledge in general. They don't want "their" children pledging anything. In my opinion it's really sad. But like I said why not go after the "In God We Trust" money first? Why are our schools the guinea pigs for liberal ideals? You want God completely removed from the government. Then fight for that first.....then go after the schools. Or is it easier to brainwash the youth vs the parents?
    Remember Michael Newdow? I read recently he has filed a case against the printing of the new motto on money, so we will see. Also, our national motto should be changed back to E Pluribus Unum. That was the excellent motto formed in the Constitutional era, and was completely relevant to the thirteen colonies coming together to form a nation. They did not use 'In God We Trust,' and neither should we-the original appropriate phrase was hijacked by Congress, and the current lawmakers in office should restore the original and apologize for the mistake made last century by their predecessors.

    As far as brainwashing the youth, there should be no forced acknowledgement of someone's personal God by children led in His worship in public schools. If a kid wants to recite the under God on his own time, he is completely free to do so. The recital of the pledge without under God is okay, I guess, but it doesn't accomplish anything. Its unnecessary.
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