View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #931
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    My point was just that it was indicative of our history. Also, it might just help to instill morality into young people. If the effects of it are positive, which I believe they are for the most part, I don't see why we should remove it.
    Forcing kids to recite an obvious lie is going to instill "morality" in them?

    What instills morality in children is observing moral behavior in adults, and having moral behavior expected of them. And explaining morality to them.

    Morality cannot be explained in terms of religion.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Forcing kids to recite an obvious lie is going to instill "morality" in them?

    What instills morality in children is observing moral behavior in adults, and having moral behavior expected of them. And explaining morality to them.
    Wow, another thing I agree with you on.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Forcing kids to recite an obvious lie is going to instill "morality" in them?

    What instills morality in children is observing moral behavior in adults, and having moral behavior expected of them. And explaining morality to them.

    Morality cannot be explained in terms of religion.
    You may think it's a lie but many people don't. The bottom line is, is that it doesn't endorse any particular religion. It's just indicative of the history of our nation. Morality can absolutely be expressed in terms of religion. Not just the Christian religion but rather, all the major religions of the world include things about morality. I believe you simply choose not to acknowledge this fact based on your own obvious prejudices towards Christianity and religion in general, of which you have expressed so thoroughly on this forum time and time again.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    And why shouldn't it be a dirty word? What exactly is the virtue of patriotism?
    It's about community. My family comes first. That does not mean I don't care about others but when you get right down to it my family comes first. Then my neighborhood, my community, my city, my state, and then my country. Doesn't mean the rest of the world is less important or I don't care about the rest of the world but when push comes to shove I put mine first. What's wrong with that?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Morality cannot be explained in terms of religion.
    I'm not religious personally but this line is a load of horse manure. Morality certainly can be expressed and explained in terms of religions and many many people use religion as their moral guide. It serves some very well and makes others crazy. But I found your statement quite frankly....absurd.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    You may think it's a lie but many people don't. The bottom line is, is that it doesn't endorse any particular religion. It's just indicative of the history of our nation. Morality can absolutely be expressed in terms of religion. Not just the Christian religion but rather, all the major religions of the world include things about morality. I believe you simply choose not to acknowledge this fact based on your own obvious prejudices towards Christianity and religion in general, of which you have expressed so thoroughly on this forum time and time again.

    No. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. This nation isn't "under God". Never has been. If you think it has ever been under God, place tell us where on the map we can find the print of Her Holy Buttocks.

    No religion is moral. All religions base what they claim is morality on threat of devine wrath rather than on any recognition of other persons as equals. Christianity is one of the worst offenders, second in this only to the dog-do religion of Islam.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou
    I'm not religious personally but this line is a load of horse manure. Morality certainly can be expressed and explained in terms of religions and many many people use religion as their moral guide. It serves some very well and makes others crazy. But I found your statement quite frankly....absurd.

    The Judeo/Christian/Islamic "morality" includes the tale of Lot tossing his virgin daughters out to the angry mob to be raped so the mob won't bother God's angels. God's angels, nearly all-powerful beings themselves, accept this. God hisself, in a fit of pique, murders everyone on the planet, except for Noah and his family. Yet, descended though we are from incest, according to this silly tale, it's immoral to boink your sister. So much for consistency. Jesus hisself gets pissed off at a tree for not bearing fruit...we won't mention that it was out of season, and he kills it.

    People may use religion as a moral guide. That merely means their incapable of defining their own morality and incapable of seeing the glaring flaws in all religions. People use crescent wrenches, too.

    Real morality, a coherent set of logical principles of free-choice that does not violate the freedom of others to choose their own way without interference, cannot reside in any religion demanding the mob control the individual or imposing metaphysical punishments for deviation.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    It doesn't matter what words or phrases are in the pledge of alligance. What matters is that students be allowed to refuse to recite the pledge and or leave their classroom if they choose during it.
    “We must picture hell as a state where everyone is perpetually concerned about his own dignity and advancement, where everyone has a grievance, and where everyone lives with the deadly serious passions of envy, self-importance, and resentment.”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboteur
    It doesn't matter what words or phrases are in the pledge of alligance. What matters is that students be allowed to refuse to recite the pledge and or leave their classroom if they choose during it.
    What matters is that government established a religion and it doesn't matter if people are free to not recite it. People were free to utter those silly words before the government violate the First Amendment to make them law.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    No. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. This nation isn't "under God". Never has been. If you think it has ever been under God, place tell us where on the map we can find the print of Her Holy Buttocks.
    You can use those crude analogies but they don't really accomplish much. The vast majority of our founding fathers were theists, not to mention that the vast majority of our Presidents and politicans have been religious. This also not mentioning the fact that many of our country's bright people in the arts, sciences, and business have been religious: Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, etc. So is religion is definitely a historical aspect of our country.



    No religion is moral. All religions base what they claim is morality on threat of devine wrath rather than on any recognition of other persons as equals. Christianity is one of the worst offenders, second in this only to the dog-do religion of Islam.
    Again, your personal opinions on religion don't amount to a hill of beans, Elsa. It doesn't change the fact that America has had a history of theism in her mists.

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