View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #901
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron
    Meh the sheer promotion of unity within both the anthem and the pledge are a basic benefit inherent to them both.

    You can cultlike chant anything you like with a thousand people but I will never forget or that wonderful tingly feeling of unity when the flag raises and you finish the anthem knowing people gave their lives for the opportunities presented to you and you know you are about to hit someone as hard as you possible can at the beginning of a football game. Its like a good feeling spell that uplifts your spirits and makes you stronger realizing others are backing you up.

    If you dont know what that feeling is I cannot explain it to you.
    You will not ever "get it".

    Go sing O' Canada. Not quite the same.
    The unity promotion is true to an extent. I highly doubt that reciting these things would solve the division in the country right now though.

    And yes, I do know about the tingly feeling associated with the anthem. It is purely an emotional response. I used to get the same thing as a child from the Star Wars theme (I know, it sounds corny, but I was a kid).

    I doubt that an athlete would be weaker for not hearing the anthem before the game though. If you need a song to get jacked up for a game, then perhaps you have issues with where you get you motivation from. BTW, does the anthem give you a feeling of unity with your opposition or just your own team?

    O' Canada? Are you saying that our national anthem is the only one that instills feelings of loyalty and pride in a country. How ethnocentric of you!
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  2. #902
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    When the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, it did not contain the words "Under God".

    It was written for a youth group sponsored by a church. Congress added the words "Under God" in 1954 because they apparently thought it would make Communists incapable of saying it.

    The people who want the phrase in the Pledge damned well do not mean "a higher power"-- they are referring specifically to their god and their god alone. Declaring this nation to be subservient to their god means that worshippers of other gods are not a part of this nation, and that they are not welcome here.

    I was born of this land and of these people, and I will not turn my back on either. I am sure as Hel not going to allow either to be taken from me by these narrow-minded reactionaries.

  3. #903
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    When the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, it did not contain the words "Under God".

    It was written for a youth group sponsored by a church. Congress added the words "Under God" in 1954 because they apparently thought it would make Communists incapable of saying it.

    The people who want the phrase in the Pledge damned well do not mean "a higher power"-- they are referring specifically to their god and their god alone. Declaring this nation to be subservient to their god means that worshippers of other gods are not a part of this nation, and that they are not welcome here.

    I was born of this land and of these people, and I will not turn my back on either. I am sure as Hel not going to allow either to be taken from me by these narrow-minded reactionaries.
    The pledge was written by a socialist and the song "God Bless America" by an Atheist who made no secret of his nonbelief. Declaring that we are a nation ruled by a Christian God displays a hatred of this country. We were founded on a secular document in which "We the people" rule. I wonder why they hate America so much.
    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
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    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    - Thomas Jefferson


    "Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do."
    - Robert G. Ingersoll

  4. #904
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    When the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, it did not contain the words "Under God".
    True but then how do you account for the words, "Year of our Lord" in our Constitution?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    True but then how do you account for the words, "Year of our Lord" in our Constitution?
    That's how they did dates. It's really no different than AD or BC. Not to mention it's extraneous, as we're not going to base our laws on how a date was written.
    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
    - Thomas Paine


    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    - Thomas Jefferson


    "Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do."
    - Robert G. Ingersoll

  6. #906
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    True but then how do you account for the words, "Year of our Lord" in our Constitution?
    That's just the English translation of anno domini (AD), which was merely the standard way of writing years at that time. Don't read too much into it.
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  7. #907
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredFlash
    If George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wanted "under God" in the Pledge, they would have included those words when they wrote the Pledge back in 1492.
    a) The pledge was not written in 1492.

    b) Overly simplistic logic.

    "If the founders wanted blacks to be free, they would have put that in the constitution."

    "If the founders wanted women to vote, they would have put that in the constitution"

    "If the founders wanted a right to abortion, they would have passed a law"



    We have a Separation of Church and State because the founders were Christians. It came from the Bible don't you know?

    That all depends on how you define the word "religion." How do you define it for First Amendment purposes?
    For first Amendment purposes, religion is "Any sincere belief based upon a power or being or upon a faith to which all else is subordinate or upon which all else is ultimately dependent. Any belief which rests at least partly upon moral or ethical principle, not wholly upon considerations of policy, pragmatism, or expediency."
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #908
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat
    When the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written, it did not contain the words "Under God".

    It was written for a youth group sponsored by a church. Congress added the words "Under God" in 1954 because they apparently thought it would make Communists incapable of saying it.

    The people who want the phrase in the Pledge damned well do not mean "a higher power"-- they are referring specifically to their god and their god alone. Declaring this nation to be subservient to their god means that worshippers of other gods are not a part of this nation, and that they are not welcome here.

    I was born of this land and of these people, and I will not turn my back on either. I am sure as Hel not going to allow either to be taken from me by these narrow-minded reactionaries.
    This is one of the few times in which I'll admit to agreeing with Justice Breyer. When faced with issues like 10 Commandments, etc, he chooses to follow the path of least resistance. In cases where the commandments were there and someone was suing to remove, he voted to leave them. In cases where they weren't and someone was suing to install them, he voted to keep them out. I'm mostly the same way when it comes to the pledge. If someone wanted to put that in the pledge now, I'd be against it. But considering its been there for 50 years, im still up in the air about removing it.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #909
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    a) The pledge was not written in 1492.
    I'm pretty sure he was joking about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    b) Overly simplistic logic.

    "If the founders wanted blacks to be free, they would have put that in the constitution."

    "If the founders wanted women to vote, they would have put that in the constitution"

    "If the founders wanted a right to abortion, they would have passed a law"
    What is wrong with those statements? The founding fathers DIDN'T want those things. The tenth amendment pretty much spells out that the states can decide anything that isn't given to the feds. How is that an oversimplification?
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    I'm pretty sure he was joking about that.



    What is wrong with those statements? The founding fathers DIDN'T want those things. The tenth amendment pretty much spells out that the states can decide anything that isn't given to the feds. How is that an oversimplification?
    Sorry if my intent wasn't clear, perhaps I should have included some examples that made it more clear what I was trying to say.

    "If the founding fathers wanted us to have free speech over the phone or internet, they would have mentioned that."

    "If the founding fathers wanted us to have freedom from electronic surveillance, eavesdropping, and having every movement on the internet tracked, they would have mentioned that."

    My point was to show that just because the founding fathers didn't mention something in the constitution then, doesn't mean they wouldn't support it now. Anyone who looks at it reasonably can see that the 1st amendment logically applies to speech over the phone or internet, even if they didnt specifically elucidate it.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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