View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #881
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002
    No, We didn't say it here in my 90% republican midwest farm town after 5th grade. We have discussed this before but apparently you still think that every public school student still says it. Where exactly did you check? You also said that last time.
    I would bet that you are in the minority in that one. I can quite honestly say that I've never heard of schools that didn't say it. We had a discussion in a class on the Constitution on this very topic, and of the 17 kids in the room, every single one (mostly from liberal northeastern areas) said the pledge through all of high school.

    Really I don't think it has any use other than superficial ceremonial value. The pledge doesn't make you more loyal to your country any more than swearing to tell the truth in court.
    So....your point is? It's not mandated.

    Singing the national anthem doesn't "do" anything either, but tell that to major league baseball. Hell, the flag doesn't "do" anything either, nor does Mt. Rushmore.
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    I would bet that you are in the minority in that one. I can quite honestly say that I've never heard of schools that didn't say it. We had a discussion in a class on the Constitution on this very topic, and of the 17 kids in the room, every single one (mostly from liberal northeastern areas) said the pledge through all of high school.



    So....your point is? It's not mandated.

    Singing the national anthem doesn't "do" anything either, but tell that to major league baseball. Hell, the flag doesn't "do" anything either, nor does Mt. Rushmore.
    Really? That's crazy. I never said it after elementary school.
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    I would bet that you are in the minority in that one. I can quite honestly say that I've never heard of schools that didn't say it. We had a discussion in a class on the Constitution on this very topic, and of the 17 kids in the room, every single one (mostly from liberal northeastern areas) said the pledge through all of high school.
    Maybe it's a New England thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    So....your point is? It's not mandated.
    You asked how it "outlived it's usefullness"? That is the point. C'mon, try to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Singing the national anthem doesn't "do" anything either, but tell that to major league baseball. Hell, the flag doesn't "do" anything either, nor does Mt. Rushmore.
    Singing the national anthem tests your vocal range and memory skills. The flag can be used for curtains as it did in my first apartment. The flag also folds up into a giant paper football. Mt. Rushmore attracts tourists. Why else would you go to the middle of nowhere?
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    So....your point is? It's not mandated.
    Schools lead their students in pledging allegiance to the flag, do they not? Therefore it is basically mandated; peer pressure is very strong, especially among kids. How comfortable would you feel if you were in a room with a hundred other people, and the other 99 did something in unison that you were uncomfortable doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Singing the national anthem doesn't "do" anything either, but tell that to major league baseball.
    No one is forcing them to sing the national anthem, the MLB chooses to.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Hell, the flag doesn't "do" anything either, nor does Mt. Rushmore.
    Those aren't actions, they're symbols.

    I concur with those who think the Pledge is unnecessary. You're free to say (almost) whatever you want whenever you want; do we really need a national pledge of allegiance? Here's my pledge:

    I pledge allegiance to liberty, capitalism, and good governance
    /
    Which may include the United States of America, when it deserves my allegiance
    /
    One nation, under no state-sanctioned religion, divisible into 50 autonomous governments which have the right to sever ties with the nation
    /
    With liberty and justice for all
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002
    Maybe it's a New England thing.
    Perhaps. If so, im unaware of it.

    You asked how it "outlived it's usefullness"? That is the point. C'mon, try to keep up.
    Singing the national anthem tests your vocal range and memory skills. The flag can be used for curtains as it did in my first apartment. The flag also folds up into a giant paper football. Mt. Rushmore attracts tourists. Why else would you go to the middle of nowhere?
    The pledge of allegience tests your memory as well, as well as providing a measure of structure to the school day, for those who choose to participate. If schools want to do it, they can do it. If not, they don't have to. By definition, for those schools who choose to do it, it obviously hasn't outlived its usefulness.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar
    Schools lead their students in pledging allegiance to the flag, do they not? Therefore it is basically mandated; peer pressure is very strong, especially among kids. How comfortable would you feel if you were in a room with a hundred other people, and the other 99 did something in unison that you were uncomfortable doing?
    So schools should organize their actions based around making everyone feel comfortable? If I were to be uncomfortable with learning about health, safe sex, and condoms, the school should not be allowed to teach it to anyone?

    No one is forcing them to sing the national anthem, the MLB chooses to.
    That's my point, to them, it hasn't outlived its usefulness, like to the millions of people for whom the pledge hasn't outlived its usefulness.

    Hell, the NYC City Council, which Democrats control 56-3 just voted to open each session with the Pledge. Guess its not useless to them either.

    Those aren't actions, they're symbols.

    I concur with those who think the Pledge is unnecessary. You're free to say (almost) whatever you want whenever you want; do we really need a national pledge of allegiance? Here's my pledge:

    I pledge allegiance to liberty, capitalism, and good governance
    /
    Which may include the United States of America, when it deserves my allegiance
    /
    One nation, under no state-sanctioned religion, divisible into 50 autonomous governments which have the right to sever ties with the nation
    /
    With liberty and justice for all
    And I wholeheartedly support your right to say it, just as I support the rights of schools to decide to say the pledge.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    The pledge of allegience tests your memory as well, as well as providing a measure of structure to the school day, for those who choose to participate. If schools want to do it, they can do it. If not, they don't have to. By definition, for those schools who choose to do it, it obviously hasn't outlived its usefulness.
    I knew you would bring up testing your memory. After the first couple years I think the kids got it. Isn't all of school about testing memory and providing structure? I think they could memorize something usefull that they could actually use in life. Just because a school chooses to recite it doesn't make it usefull. How usefull is it after the hundredth time recited?
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002
    I knew you would bring up testing your memory. After the first couple years I think the kids got it. Isn't all of school about testing memory and providing structure? I think they could memorize something usefull that they could actually use in life. Just because a school chooses to recite it doesn't make it usefull. How usefull is it after the hundredth time recited?
    You were the one who brought up testing memory, not me...

    It's a completely pointless argument, I just felt I should point out where you were being hypocritical.

    I see you don't have a response for the rest of my reply. If a school board decides that to them, it is worth reciting, who are you to tell them it's not?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    You were the one who brought up testing memory, not me...

    It's a completely pointless argument, I just felt I should point out where you were being hypocritical.

    I see you don't have a response for the rest of my reply. If a school board decides that to them, it is worth reciting, who are you to tell them it's not?
    Are you drinking, you don't seem to be very sharp tonite. I brought up testing memory for the anthem. I would bet that the majority of Americans can't recite it correctly. I haven't recited the pledge yet I still remember it, it isn't hard to remember. People recite the pledge more often that the anthem also. Anyway, I wasn't being hypocritical.

    I did respond to the rest of your post. Just because a school perceives it to be useful doesn't make it so. Who am I to tell them it isn't? Someone who obviously has better critical thinking skills than them. You, nor they, can tell me how it is useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002
    I brought up testing memory for the anthem. I would bet that the majority of Americans can't recite it correctly. I haven't recited the pledge yet I still remember it, it isn't hard to remember. People recite the pledge more often that the anthem also. Anyway, I wasn't being hypocritical.
    Yes, and it was as foolish a point in referring to the anthem as it was in referring to the pledge. Do you really believe that the purpose that the Anthem serves is to practice memory skills? If not, then that is not valid support for it being "useful," and there is nothing left to distinguish the pledge from the anthem (aside from "testing vocal range" which I'm assuming was a joke). So, now that that's set aside, what makes the anthem "useful" but the pledge not?

    I did respond to the rest of your post. Just because a school perceives it to be useful doesn't make it so. Who am I to tell them it isn't? Someone who obviously has better critical thinking skills than them. You, nor they, can tell me how it is useful.
    Ah, yes, how could I be so stupid. The "I'm smarter than everyone else so I should have the right to tell them what they are permitted to do" argument. I forget that you had that power, forgive me.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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