View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #851
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    This whole discussion has become absurd. Surely there are more pressing concerns to be explored than the attempt by an angry few to deny a lot of people the right to say a patriotic pledge that means a great deal to them.
    Your exactly right, this whole discussion has become absurd. You refuse to answer many posts, and continue to use the Founding Fathers and "historical, cultural, and symbological" to explain your illogical reasoning.

    Your real problem is the fact that you think removing Under God is a way to let the Athiests win. Why don't you go hangout with Pat Robertson and read a few Jerry Farwell books.
    Then go out and kill some gays and pro-choice people, because your "GOD" says Gays must be killed.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    There is no requirement that you put your child in a school that is not teaching what you consider to be acceptable for your child.
    My tax dollars are taken at gunpoint to finance those schools. That's "enforcement" if there ever was any.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    You have come up with no reason for why it is illegal other than you want it to be.
    Hmmmm...86 pages so far, 854 posts, and AlbqOwl can't see any reasons why he's wrong...

    ...he should try reading the posts that disagree with him.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Didn't I just write an explanation of how those illegal words in the Pledge of Allegiance harm me and my child?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    No, what you wrote was an emotional dissertation on why you didn't like the Pledge and that you were required to 'unindoctrinate' your child as a result of the Pledge.
    Then you're not reading what I wrote. Try doing that.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    If you take 'under God' out of the Pledge, I could as easily say that my child is traumatized by not being able to recite the Pledge in the way s/he wishes to say it. That would be just as absurd.
    She won't be able to say "under God" if she wants to? Do you send her to school with her mouth taped shut?

  5. #855
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Stating that we are "Under God" yes that is. How do we not endorse the establishment of religion when we are "Under God". How can we possibly NOT be endorsing the establishment of religion when we place our trust in god ("In God We Trust).

    Answer those questions directly and stop getting off subject.
    And I suppose "under no god" would certainly NOT be government endorsement of Atheism, heavens no!

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    2. In removing god from the government? If your god needs government support to get children's attention in schools, your religion or any religion isn't worthy of following in the first place.
    A relevent Ingersoll quote!

    "Religion is an individual matter, and each soul should be left entirely free to form its own opinions and to judge of its accountability to a supposed supreme being. With religion, government has nothing whatever to do. Government is founded upon force, and force should never interfere with the religious opinions of men. Laws should define the rights of men and their duties toward each other, and these laws should be for the benefit of man in this world."

    (bold emphasis added)

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    It was legal because it is not an establishement of religion but an acknowledgement of the historical and cultural religious heritage of our country and is based on the belief of the founders that we all have certain God-given rights that no one can take away.
    Umm, then the phrase should read, "one nation, under Nature's God" as that is the one specifically mentioned in the DoI.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The Pledge of Allegiance is not a prayer.
    Oy.

    Yes, I'm well aware. The case cited was Engel v. Vitale, dealing with a non-denominational prayer in NY schools.

    The reason I cited it was not because of the prayer, but because of the court's stance on mandatory v non mandatory recitations.

    The court has held that even if something is not mandatory, if it is recited each day, it is coercive.

    Therefore your inane argument of "if they dont want to say it they don't have to " is irrelevant. So stop using it.

    As a side note, that decision also had a few choice things to say about religion and government entanglement.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #859
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I have read every post, and every one on the anti-under-God side has said pretty much the same thing. Despite repeated requests to do so, nobody can show how the phrase establishes religion, and nobody has given any credible evidence that the phrase is in any way coercive any more than anything else taught in school. Nobody has shown me any credible case of their livelihood, property, safety, security, or any unalienable right being compromised by the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance.

    I have not responded to every post because I do have a life to live outside of this message board and it becomes tedious giving the same responses to the same unsubstantiated points stated again and again. But I have responded to every issue, some several times. My specific arguments have been ignored or dismissed as each of you return to the mantra of "It is unconstitutional because I say it is (or because a liberal activist judge said it was.)"

    When you boil it all down to the elemental concepts, the one thing any of you have as defense is that you don't like the phrase and you would deny everybody else the option of saying it or require them to be disruptive if they chose to insert it. The proof of the emptiness of your arguments is your turning away from even the pretense of seriously debating the issues to a let's-beat-up-on-Owl approach. That pretty well signals that you're out of what little ammunition you had.

    And now since you seem to be out of what limited arguments you offered, and you have come up with nothing additional that is constructive to contribute, I'll conclude that my arguments stand without refutation. I accept that you all think they have been completely refuted.

    I will now look for a new good discussion on a different topic that is a bit more challenging that the game of "Is too, is not". Have a good weekend everybody.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 10-07-05 at 08:02 AM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The Founding Fathers had no illusions that our unalienable rights came from Satan.
    But because they DID have illusions that these "unalienable rights" came from what they called "God", it's okay to violate the Constitution those very same people wrote, right?

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