View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
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    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #841
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl

    P.S. I didn't write it.
    Yeah, we know........

    In an 1955 Affidavit before a Notary Public of Cook County, Illinois, Louis A. Bowman (1872 - 1959) officially claimed to be the first person to initiate the practice of reciting "under God" in the Pledge. He was a member of the Board of Governors of the Illinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution and served as its Chaplin. He lived in Oak Park, a suburb of Chicago.

    http://pledgeqanda.com/

  2. #842
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Hey I've been asking for responses to the criteria that would make two words in the pledge constitutionally illegal. So far not one person has decided to take up that challenge. And yes, any good debater will ignore the 'It's so because I said so' argument.
    It's so because the court said so in Engel v. Vitale, Abington v. Schempp, and numerous others.

    You just don't get it, do you?
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by robin
    I do believe that the topic "Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?", is currently the daftest waste of time on DP. IMO of course.
    No, that post was the biggest waste of time. Ever.
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Unless the law specifically says it is voluntary. Which it does.
    No, no, no, no, no, oh my god, NO!

    There can be no doubt that New York's state prayer program officially establishes the religious beliefs embodied in the Regents' prayer. The respondents' argument to the contrary, which is largely based upon the contention that the Regents' prayer is "non-denominational" and the fact that the program, as modified and approved by state courts, does not require all pupils to recite the prayer but permits those who wish to do so to remain silent or be excused from the room, ignores the essential nature of the program's constitutional defects. Neither the fact that the prayer may be denominationally neutral nor the fact that its observance on the part of the students is voluntary can serve to free it from the limitations of the Establishment Clause, as it might from the Free Exercise Clause, of the First Amendment, both of which are operative against the States by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment. Although these two clauses may in certain instances overlap, they forbid two quite different kinds of governmental encroachment upon religious freedom. The Establishment Clause, unlike the Free Exercise Clause, does not depend upon any showing of direct governmental compulsion and is violated by the enactment of laws which establish an official religion whether those laws operate directly to coerce nonobserving individuals or not. This is not to say, of course, that laws officially prescribing a particular form of religious worship do not involve coercion of such individuals. When the power, prestige and financial support of government is placed behind a particular religious belief, the indirect coercive pressure upon religious minorities to conform to the prevailing officially approved religion is plain. But the purposes underlying the Establishment Clause go much further than that. Its first and most immediate purpose rested on the belief that a union of government and religion tends to destroy government and to degrade religion.
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  5. #845
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHNYJ
    RE; Right at NYU # 820
    At the time ! opening excercises were Constitutional .
    You and others that oppose Religion in the public square,Make it sound like their are gangs of chriostians roaming shool buildings beating up atheists and JW.
    In acient days we had no roaming gangs of protestants attacking Catholics for not reciting their version of the Lords prayer.
    It would be so simple,you dont like the line,don't say it,but. That wouldn't satisfy malcontents that want to drive religion out of public life.
    Maybe if back when you attended school, they had taught proper grammar and argument rather than wasting time on trying to teach religion, you wouldn't write like a functional illiterate.

    Your posts are the best arguments I've seen so far for not letting schools go back to the way they were...
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    But for more than 50 years now, Americans have been reciting the Pledge with no distinguishable ill effects on anyone,
    I'm sorry.

    Didn't I just write an explanation of how those illegal words in the Pledge of Allegiance harm me and my child?

    Yes, I know I did.

    So I"m either not "anyone", or nobody. Which isn't what the Constitution says.

  7. #847
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    No, no, no, no, no, oh my god, NO!
    The Pledge of Allegiance is not a prayer.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #848
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    I'm sorry.

    Didn't I just write an explanation of how those illegal words in the Pledge of Allegiance harm me and my child?

    Yes, I know I did.

    So I"m either not "anyone", or nobody. Which isn't what the Constitution says.
    No, what you wrote was an emotional dissertation on why you didn't like the Pledge and that you were required to 'unindoctrinate' your child as a result of the Pledge. First, any child that could be 'indoctrinated' by hearing the proper recitation of the Pledge has far more problems than anything that could be contained in such recitation. Second, your child is being exposed to far more unacceptable (in your eyes) things in school than anything in the Pledge. Thirdly, if you want your child to never be exposed to any ideology but your own, you will save yourself a lot of hassle in not having to bother to teach, yes. You'll also give your child a very unrealistic view of the world and put him/her in line for some very confusing times when you can no longer control his/her world.

    There is no constitutional right to be 'comfortable' or satisfied or unconfused. You have not shown in any credible way how the Pledge interferes with your property, health, security, safety, or any unalienable right that you have.

    If you take 'under God' out of the Pledge, I could as easily say that my child is traumatized by not being able to recite the Pledge in the way s/he wishes to say it. That would be just as absurd.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #849
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    No, what you wrote was an emotional dissertation on why you didn't like the Pledge and that you were required to 'unindoctrinate' your child as a result of the Pledge. First, any child that could be 'indoctrinated' by hearing the proper recitation of the Pledge has far more problems than anything that could be contained in such recitation. Second, your child is being exposed to far more unacceptable (in your eyes) things in school than anything in the Pledge. Thirdly, if you want your child to never be exposed to any ideology but your own, you will save yourself a lot of hassle in not having to bother to teach, yes. You'll also give your child a very unrealistic view of the world and put him/her in line for some very confusing times when you can no longer control his/her world.
    There is no constitutional right to be 'comfortable' or satisfied or unconfused. You have not shown in any credible way how the Pledge interferes with your property, health, security, safety, or any unalienable right that you have.

    If you take 'under God' out of the Pledge, I could as easily say that my child is traumatized by not being able to recite the Pledge in the way s/he wishes to say it. That would be just as absurd.
    1. So, if we forced children to recite "Hail to thee Satan!" while saluting a flag of the US of A, and the child grows up to be a Satanist, this is okay too? Would you like for that to happen to your child? Would you think your child has problems because you felt the need to unindoctrinate your child? This is an invalid argument.

    2. But there is a constitutional clause that states the Government will keep religion seperate of any government issues. An Official pledge, which is stated in the US Flag Code as such, has god in it, thus it is unconstitutional.

    3. That would be absurd, but nothing could be done about it because putting god back into the pledge would be unconstitutional.

  10. #850
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    1. So, if we forced children to recite "Hail to thee Satan!" while saluting a flag of the US of A, and the child grows up to be a Satanist, this is okay too? Would you like for that to happen to your child? Would you think your child has problems because you felt the need to unindoctrinate your child? This is an invalid argument.
    The Founding Fathers had no illusions that our unalienable rights came from Satan. So this is a straw man analogy and not worth discussion. Can you name one person who has been 'indoctrinated' by the Pledge of Allegiance in the last 50+ years? I can't. I don't think anybody who is honest can. I was taught what 'under God' in the Pledge means. Any good school will teach it. If your school doesn't, you should insist on it.


    2. But there is a constitutional clause that states the Government will keep religion seperate of any government issues. An Official pledge, which is stated in the US Flag Code as such, has god in it, thus it is unconstitutional.
    There is nothing in the Constitution or in any of its supporting documents that state the Goverment will keep religion separate of any government issues. There is a clause that says government can neither require you to believe anything religious nor forbid you to believe anything religious. That is a huge difference. The phrase 'under God' in a voluntary Pledge is not unconstitutional any more than the references to God in the state constitutions are unconstitutional because none of them have any force or authority regarding you in any manner. They are not an establishment of religion.

    3. That would be absurd, but nothing could be done about it because putting god back into the pledge would be unconstitutional.
    This whole discussion has become absurd. Surely there are more pressing concerns to be explored than the attempt by an angry few to deny a lot of people the right to say a patriotic pledge that means a great deal to them.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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