View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #771
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    You may have wanted to actually do some minimal research. For God's f**king sake, just google some of the damn stuff here. Not going to even bother will all of this since it is bogus but the 10 commandments and Moses are in the Supreme Court WITH WHAT? Confucious, Mohammed, etc. But, that would have been a bit inconvenient to mention, huh? That Madison quote? A big stinky pile of BS. David Barton of Wallbuilders made it up. Oops. According to a letter written in 1822 by Madison to Edward Livingston, "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." That quote is valid as far as I know. Note that he is a Founding Father. Quote Patrick Henry or whoever you want (I am pretty sure that quote is true), but the framers came to a compromise, the Constitution. Try as you might, you will find no mention of the Bible, God, Jesus or Christianity. It seems that they CHOSE to leave religion OUT. The chaplains are crossing a line, but it is a long tradition and as such will not go away anytime soon, but eventually. That doesn't make it constitutional. Number of Founders who are Christians irrelevent, see above. Thomas Jefferson is not worried about people following the Constitution, so that quote is trying to make it look as though people for separation of church and state are out of line. If that Supreme Court Justice quote is true, that is his opinion and is has no grounding in our Constitution. He was going too far in saying such a thing. To think that separation of church and state would actually be adhered to at the time is ridiculous. It has just taken us over 200 years to follow our Constitution more closely. Umm, that 14% is right whether you like it or not, nevermind plenty of CHRISTIANS recognize the importance of separation of church and state so the number is a good deal higher. How about all those people who want to wipe their asses with the Constitution get the f**k out of here instead since they are too lazy to even know what this country is based on and go live in a theocracy. Of course, it is quite clear who is correct on the matter. When you have to lie, twist facts, and yell SHUT UP you have nothing to stand on. Guess I did answer everything.

    And you did a Damn Fine Job, Sir!

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    mad Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    So our founding fathers were...agnostic? And those people who first settled in America were...atheists? Sorry about that. I didn't get that memo. And yes, their faith has a great deal to do with how everything in this country was developed.

    They wanted religious freedom for themselves and America. Removing "under God" removes religious freedom from the majority of people who WANT TO KEEP THAT IN THE PLEDGE!

    And yes, individuals who don't want to say it shouldn't say the "under God" part. Just stand there with your hand on your heart as a sign of respect and be silent when everyone else says, "under God."

    Kids shouldn't be forced to say a prayer in the public school classroom, but kids who want to say a prayer should be allowed to do so. Religious freedom.
    But there is a minority that says, "We don't believe in God and I don't want my child to see someone praying because that takes away his/her religious freedom to have to see that." PLEASE!

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    And you did a Damn Fine Job, Sir!
    Thanks, but I just spaced it to make it more readable and remembered to point out that that judge was going against the "no religious test for public office" bit in the Constitution. It's late, and I don't take kindly to this willfull ignorance that abounds here.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    So our founding fathers were...agnostic? And those people who first settled in America were...atheists? Sorry about that. I didn't get that memo. And yes, their faith has a great deal to do with how everything in this country was developed.

    They wanted religious freedom for themselves and America. Removing "under God" removes religious freedom from the majority of people who WANT TO KEEP THAT IN THE PLEDGE!

    And yes, individuals who don't want to say it shouldn't say the "under God" part. Just stand there with your hand on your heart as a sign of respect and be silent when everyone else says, "under God."

    Kids shouldn't be forced to say a prayer in the public school classroom, but kids who want to say a prayer should be allowed to do so. Religious freedom.
    But there is a minority that says, "We don't believe in God and I don't want my child to see someone praying because that takes away his/her religious freedom to have to see that." PLEASE!
    Do you know the history of the pledge of allegiance?????

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    So our founding fathers were...agnostic? And those people who first settled in America were...atheists? Sorry about that. I didn't get that memo. And yes, their faith has a great deal to do with how everything in this country was developed.

    They wanted religious freedom for themselves and America. Removing "under God" removes religious freedom from the majority of people who WANT TO KEEP THAT IN THE PLEDGE!

    And yes, individuals who don't want to say it shouldn't say the "under God" part. Just stand there with your hand on your heart as a sign of respect and be silent when everyone else says, "under God."

    Kids shouldn't be forced to say a prayer in the public school classroom, but kids who want to say a prayer should be allowed to do so. Religious freedom.
    But there is a minority that says, "We don't believe in God and I don't want my child to see someone praying because that takes away his/her religious freedom to have to see that." PLEASE!
    You can read, right? Religion/non-religion of the Founders is moot. That is not to say Christianity didn't play a big part CULTURALLY, but where are LAWS are concerned we have a secular founding document and a secualr government. The government cannot sponsor/favor religion over non-religion or non-religion over religion. Therefore, the phrase WILL go. You're religious freedom stops at the door of the government, so to speak. What about Muslims' religious freedom to enact Islamic shari'3a law? Sorry, no religion in government, and that's precisely why this country became the way it is. When the PUBLIC school leads the pledge or prayer, the former which was changed to be currently religious and the latter, obviously religious in any case, you have government showing favoritsm of religion. Please read my last lengthy post for a healthy dose of facts to clear up the matter.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Indeed I do. I believe Dwight D. Eisenhower was the one who approved "under God." The reason he did this (on June 14, 1954) was...

    "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

    Sounds good to me. Your point is?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    Indeed I do. I believe Dwight D. Eisenhower was the one who approved "under God." The reason he did this (on June 14, 1954) was...

    "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

    Sounds good to me. Your point is?
    You still haven't explained what the founding fathers' role is in the pledge of allegiance....... way to many people keep mentioning them like they approved of it.

    Also, since you looked that up, you should know now that before 1954, it wasn't official, making it official violates the constitution of the united states.
    Also, since you looked that up, you should know that before 1954 it did not contain those words. The originator of what later became our edited OFFICIAL pledge of allegiance didn't include the words "under God" in the pledge, and he was a Baptist Minister.
    Also, it didn't violate any rights to NOT have god in the pledge prior to 1954, prior to its unconstitutional addition.
    This sums it up pretty well.....

    In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

    In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

    http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    Indeed I do. I believe Dwight D. Eisenhower was the one who approved "under God." The reason he did this (on June 14, 1954) was...

    "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

    Sounds good to me. Your point is?
    Read my last post(s). The Constitution makes it perfectly clear that we have separation of church and state and for Congress to sign a bill into law and the President OK-ing what is essentially a prayer pledge is out of line. If you can't figure out the problem of religion+government then you are woefully ignorant of the history of this country, the colonies, the world, and religion, just to name a few. The point is, religion intertwining with the state is what the Founders wanted to prevent, which I already made clear. I'll give you a little reading assignment, a piece by one of, if not the greatest orator of the 19th century, Robert G. Ingersoll, called God in the Constitution. http://www.infidels.org/library/hist...stitution.html
    If you want to know why that "14%" and those other believers in God (Deist myself) are feeling threatened by religious enchroachment in government, this explains it better than I could ever hope to.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Okay, I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. It makes sense now why all of our presidents have been agnostic. I mean, the whole separation of church and state thing. Oops! Wait. They've all been Christian. I wonder why that is?

    Listen, I don't have a problem with people being whatever religion they want, but our founding fathers and our leaders since the dawn of America have been Christian. The majority of Americans are Christian.

    All I'm saying is, "What's wrong with letting Christians have their freedoms as long as it's not hurting anyone else?"

    I guess I have a hard time figuring out how to remove God from anything, but that's me. I guess I hear "GOD" and I think, "Spirit, gods, Jesus, sun-god, moon-god, Moses, Buddha, nature, etc." And a lot of folks who don't believe in God believe there's "something" out there. And then there are a few that absolutely say there is no God.

    If we constantly adjust the 99% of the population to accomodate the 1% we're going to have a lot of problems. We're seeing it now in the "no child left behind" program where all the kids have to go as slow as the slowest child.

    Before you jump on me about that, let me say that no child SHOULD be left behind, but not all kids should have to be in one classroom where everyone has to learn at the rate of the kid who can't speak English and has an IQ of 70.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    Okay, I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. It makes sense now why all of our presidents have been agnostic. I mean, the whole separation of church and state thing. Oops! Wait. They've all been Christian. I wonder why that is?

    Listen, I don't have a problem with people being whatever religion they want, but our founding fathers and our leaders since the dawn of America have been Christian. The majority of Americans are Christian.

    All I'm saying is, "What's wrong with letting Christians have their freedoms as long as it's not hurting anyone else?"

    I guess I have a hard time figuring out how to remove God from anything, but that's me. I guess I hear "GOD" and I think, "Spirit, gods, Jesus, sun-god, moon-god, Moses, Buddha, nature, etc." And a lot of folks who don't believe in God believe there's "something" out there. And then there are a few that absolutely say there is no God.

    If we constantly adjust the 99% of the population to accomodate the 1% we're going to have a lot of problems. We're seeing it now in the "no child left behind" program where all the kids have to go as slow as the slowest child.

    Before you jump on me about that, let me say that no child SHOULD be left behind, but not all kids should have to be in one classroom where everyone has to learn at the rate of the kid who can't speak English and has an IQ of 70.
    1. The Religion of our leader and past leaders has no relevance, we aren't compelled to follow the beliefs of our leaders, we're not 18th century Europe. Thats why we decided to move over here to the "new world" to start with.
    2. Again, read above.
    3. In a republic, Minority Individual Rights have priority over the Majority.

    4. None of this matters because the constitution states there is to be a seperation of church and state. So again, the religious beliefs of the leaders of our nation only have personal relevance, not relevance to how we are to be governed and what type of allegiance we should deem official.

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