View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #761
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    But they CAN'T. The Pledge of Allegiance is defined by federal law. Anything else they say is free verse and NOT the officially sanctioned religious statement. If they alter it, it's not THE Pledge of Allegiance.

    Therefore your "fact" is false, and not a fact at all.
    Well, I shall advise you to do what I've advised others. Say slowly and carefully so you fully understand the words: "I am not required to say the Pledge." "It's okay if I don't say the Pledge." "Nobody is making me say the Pledge." Do that several times a day until the light comes on.


    My "pursuit of happiness" is impeded to by the federal requirement that I make a prayer to utter the officially designated Pledge of Allegiance.
    How is that? Could I not as easily say that my pursuit of happiness is impeded by not being able to say a Pledge of Allegiance I enjoy saying. Or seeing somebody burn a flag. Or reading the idiocy that you sometimes see on these message boards. Pretty ridiculous that my happiness would hinge on things so shallow, yes? I think you might want to rethink your position on this one.

    P.S. It is not a prayer. It is a recognition of our religious heritage. It's okay. You won't turn into a holy roller by reading it, seeing it, hearing it, or even saying it.

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    P.S. You do not have the right to refuse others the right to say the Pledge.[/quote}

    No one's stopping any superstitutious person from saying his prayers. You can add "under God" all you want, so long it's not part of the legally required utterance. If it's not the big deal you say it isn't, why shouldn't the Constitution be obeyed and the offensive words be removed?
    Okay, repeat after me. A two word statement in a Pledge is not a prayer. I am not hearing a prayer when I hear "under God" in the Pledge. Do this several times a day. You're smart enough. You'll catch on.

    I did. Everyone else can figure out what the Dred Scott case has to do with your presumption of judicial infallibility, why can't you?
    I don't know where this 'judicial infallability' is coming from. But several in your camp are wanting to say the Pledge is unconstitutional because a wacko judge said it was. So come on. Either the judges get it right or they don't. If one judge says its unconstitutional and the next one says it isn't, then we're in a real pickle aren't we?

    Maybe its a matter of respect, tolerance, common sense, and courtesy. If the vast majority of Americans like the Pledge the way it is, how much does it hurt you angry ones to just do or think of something else in the brief moments it takes to get through it? Would you not expect as much from us if it was a constitutional right that you were excercizing?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    If we want to try to remove "GOD" from our country, we have a hell of a lot of work to do. We need to take the word out of the pledge and off our money. But then we've got these little issues to deal with...(from an e-mail someone sent me)

    As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

    As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

    As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

    There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

    James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

    "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

    Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

    Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

    Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

    Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin makinglaw.an oligarchy.
    the rule of few over many.

    The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

    How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

    It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having the 10 commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!! or go back to their country to live.

    Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on religious principles needs to put their crack pipe down and find help.

  3. #763
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    [QUOTE=AlbqOwl]Well, I shall advise you to do what I've advised others. Say slowly and carefully so you fully understand the words: "I am not required to say the Pledge." "It's okay if I don't say the Pledge." "Nobody is making me say the Pledge." Do that several times a day until the light comes on.




    How is that? Could I not as easily say that my pursuit of happiness is impeded by not being able to say a Pledge of Allegiance I enjoy saying. Or seeing somebody burn a flag. Or reading the idiocy that you sometimes see on these message boards. Pretty ridiculous that my happiness would hinge on things so shallow, yes? I think you might want to rethink your position on this one.

    P.S. It is not a prayer. It is a recognition of our religious heritage. It's okay. You won't turn into a holy roller by reading it, seeing it, hearing it, or even saying it.


    Okay, repeat after me. A two word statement in a Pledge is not a prayer. I am not hearing a prayer when I hear "under God" in the Pledge. Do this several times a day. You're smart enough. You'll catch on.



    I don't know where this 'judicial infallability' is coming from. But several in your camp are wanting to say the Pledge is unconstitutional because a wacko judge said it was. So come on. Either the judges get it right or they don't. If one judge says its unconstitutional and the next one says it isn't, then we're in a real pickle aren't we?

    Maybe its a matter of respect, tolerance, common sense, and courtesy. If the vast majority of Americans like the Pledge the way it is, how much does it hurt you angry ones to just do or think of something else in the brief moments it takes to get through it? Would you not expect as much from us if it was a constitutional right that you were excercizing?
    Tell me what religious heritage has to do with swearing allegiance to your non-religion sponsoring country.....
    I have YET to hear ANY argument that would tell me why I should just accept that we are "under God" when I don't believe in one.
    As previously stated by many people, the majority is not always right, and rightfully so.
    This crap about historical, cultural, and symbological holds no water in why those of us who don't believe in god should have to declare our country is under god, or for that matter on our money, In God We Trust.....
    I don't trust in god, cause I don't believe in him.
    Cultural? So your telling me that the Culture of America can be summed up in Religion of "GOD" or more, in the Freedom and Liberty that possessed so many to come to our country in the first place.
    How do you think Polythiests feel about this, you know, the ones who's gods actually have names, or the ones who worship the power of nature?
    Should they have to swear allegiance to our country which is "Under God?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I don't think people should be forced to say the pledge - I mean, not unless they're living in America and benefitting from all America offers.

    I don't think we should have to remove a phrase from the pledge because the minority doesn't like it. I'm sick to death of changing everything to accomodate the minorities.

    Most people believe in God or a higher power or whatever. Then there are those like me who aren't Christian but I don't mind saying "under God." I still feel I have religious freedom even though I'm not Christian. My son sings Christian songs in choir at school and I'm okay with it.

    So we have - what 80% that believe in God and 10 - 18% that are okay with "under God", Christian songs being sung in public school choirs, etc. and some tiny percentage that just has nothing else the b**tch about.

    IMHO, when God left the schools, immorality crept in. I don't think we should have all-religious schools by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think we should still teach basic morality.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    If we want to try to remove "GOD" from our country, we have a hell of a lot of work to do. We need to take the word out of the pledge and off our money. But then we've got these little issues to deal with...(from an e-mail someone sent me)

    As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

    As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

    As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

    There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

    James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

    "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

    Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

    Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

    Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

    Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin makinglaw.an oligarchy.
    the rule of few over many.

    The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

    How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

    It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having the 10 commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!! or go back to their country to live.

    Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on religious principles needs to put their crack pipe down and find help.

    I was born in this country. I do not believe in a god.
    WHAT ****ING COUNTRY ARE YOU GOING TO SEND ME BACK TO!
    Are you trying to tell me that because the majority of the people in the "land of the free" believe in this "god" that the rest of us should be required to believe that this country is "Under God"?

    You tell the 30,890,000 who don't believe in god at all, or believe in multiple gods that they should go back to where they came from. Tell them that.

  6. #766
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    I don't think people should be forced to say the pledge - I mean, not unless they're living in America and benefitting from all America offers.

    I don't think we should have to remove a phrase from the pledge because the minority doesn't like it. I'm sick to death of changing everything to accomodate the minorities.

    Most people believe in God or a higher power or whatever. Then there are those like me who aren't Christian but I don't mind saying "under God." I still feel I have religious freedom even though I'm not Christian. My son sings Christian songs in choir at school and I'm okay with it.

    So we have - what 80% that believe in God and 10 - 18% that are okay with "under God", Christian songs being sung in public school choirs, etc. and some tiny percentage that just has nothing else the b**tch about.

    IMHO, when God left the schools, immorality crept in. I don't think we should have all-religious schools by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think we should still teach basic morality.
    If parents are depending on religion in public schools to teach basic morality, then religion isn't the problem, its the people who give birth to us that are supposed to teach us morals, right from wrong, lead us in the right direction.

    Hate to tell you religious people this, but you don't need religion to learn morals.

  7. #767
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    That's what I'm saying - we don't need religion in schools necessarily, but when they took religion out, morality left to. Someone didn't know that morality can be taught without religion.

    Yes, it can be taught at home. The problem is, when it's not taught in schools AT ALL, in fact - it's challenged in school - that's when it can be a problem. And I'm not talking about anything big - basic respect, please and thank you, respect your elders, listenwhen others are speaking..." The more I think about it I'm just thinking manners.

    Tell the 30,.....to go home. Okay...go home.

    Truth is, a lot of those 30,..... or whatever don't really mind the whole under God thing - they see it as a sign of respect to teh country and our founding fathers to say it. A few of them don't believe in God and want to make a big stink about it instead of just standing up, saying the pledge and not saying "under God" but recognizing that the majority of people like it just as it is.

    I'm not Christian but it doesn't bother me to say it. This country was founded on Christianity so I respect it. And because of the religious freedom our founding fathers believed in, you get to practice whatever religion you want - or none at all - but why do we have to get rid of every trace of God from the country to appease the minority of people?

  8. #768
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    If we want to try to remove "GOD" from our country, we have a hell of a lot of work to do. We need to take the word out of the pledge and off our money. But then we've got these little issues to deal with...(from an e-mail someone sent me)

    As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view ... it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

    As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

    As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

    There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

    James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

    "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

    Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said:

    "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

    Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

    Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

    Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin makinglaw.an oligarchy.
    the rule of few over many.

    The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

    How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

    It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having the 10 commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!! or go back to their country to live.

    Anyone who says this country wasn't founded on religious principles needs to put their crack pipe down and find help.

    You may have wanted to actually do some minimal research. For God's f**king sake, just google some of the damn stuff here. Not going to even bother will all of this since it is bogus but the 10 commandments and Moses are in the Supreme Court WITH WHAT? Confucious, Mohammed, etc. But, that would have been a bit inconvenient to mention, huh?

    That Madison quote? A big stinky pile of BS. David Barton of Wallbuilders made it up. Oops. According to a letter written in 1822 by Madison to Edward Livingston, "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." That quote is valid as far as I know. Note that he is a Founding Father.

    Quote Patrick Henry or whoever you want (I am pretty sure that quote is true), but the framers came to a compromise, the Constitution. Try as you might, you will find no mention of the Bible, God, Jesus or Christianity. It seems that they CHOSE to leave religion OUT.

    The chaplains are crossing a line, but it is a long tradition and as such will not go away anytime soon, but eventually. That doesn't make it constitutional. Number of Founders who are Christians irrelevent, see above. Thomas Jefferson is not worried about people following the Constitution, so that quote is trying to make it look as though people for separation of church and state are out of line.

    If that Supreme Court Justice quote is true, that is his opinion and is has no grounding in our Constitution. He was going too far in saying such a thing.In fact there is something about no religious test for public office. He forgot to read that. To think that separation of church and state would actually be adhered to at the time is ridiculous. It has just taken us over 200 years to follow our Constitution more closely.

    Umm, that 14% is right whether you like it or not, nevermind plenty of CHRISTIANS recognize the importance of separation of church and state so the number is a good deal higher. How about all those people who want to wipe their asses with the Constitution get the f**k out of here instead since they are too lazy to even know what this country is based on and go live in a theocracy. Of course, it is quite clear who is correct on the matter. When you have to lie, twist facts, and yell SHUT UP you have nothing to stand on. Guess I did answer everything.
    Last edited by Columbusite; 10-05-05 at 11:44 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    That's what I'm saying - we don't need religion in schools necessarily, but when they took religion out, morality left to. Someone didn't know that morality can be taught without religion.

    Yes, it can be taught at home. The problem is, when it's not taught in schools AT ALL, in fact - it's challenged in school - that's when it can be a problem. And I'm not talking about anything big - basic respect, please and thank you, respect your elders, listenwhen others are speaking..." The more I think about it I'm just thinking manners.

    Tell the 30,.....to go home. Okay...go home.

    Truth is, a lot of those 30,..... or whatever don't really mind the whole under God thing - they see it as a sign of respect to teh country and our founding fathers to say it. A few of them don't believe in God and want to make a big stink about it instead of just standing up, saying the pledge and not saying "under God" but recognizing that the majority of people like it just as it is.

    I'm not Christian but it doesn't bother me to say it. This country was founded on Christianity so I respect it. And because of the religious freedom our founding fathers believed in, you get to practice whatever religion you want - or none at all - but why do we have to get rid of every trace of God from the country to appease the minority of people?
    1. Show me evidence that the founding fathers support a religious pledge of allegiance to the flag, and I'll shut up. No, the fact that they HAD a religious preference is not evidence that they support making it a legal pledge of allegiance.

    2. Appease the Minority of the People? Ahem......

    The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy.

    So, class, WHY should be appease the minority of the people?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naheeh
    That's what I'm saying - we don't need religion in schools necessarily, but when they took religion out, morality left to.
    NO ONE TOOK RELIGION OUT OF SCHOOLS! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THIS: ALL STUDENTS ARE ALLOWED TO PRAY WHEN THEY WANT AND BRING THEIR RELIGIOUS TEXTS AND READ THEM. Morality left? Gee, that would explain why back then racism wasn't a problem and women and children weren't commonly beaten by their husbands/fathers and communists were allowed to express their views, although unpopular, freely. Them's some good morals. Hey, did I just see a negro look at that white woman? I think that tree is going to come in real handy. (Note: all of that WITH "under God")
    Last edited by Columbusite; 10-05-05 at 11:59 PM.

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