View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #751
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Fealty: Loyalty ALLEGIANCE

    Pledge: Promise

    Oath: solemn appeal to God to witness the truth of a statement or sacredness of a PROMISE.

    Turning the Pledge into a religious statement turns it into enough of an oath to offend the mightiest Jehovah Witness. I'm betting our muslim buddies are unable to utter it, also.



    Your opinion is based on the denial of the meaning of a statement in present tense illegally appended to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    Your opinion is wrong.
    My opinion is based on the fact that any American can make of the Pledge whatever they wish and it is optional what they make of it or whether they make anything of it at all. Now repeat after me: "Nobody can make me recite the Pledge.....nobody can make me recite the Pledge.....I do not have to recite the Pledge." If you do that enough, it might sink in.


    I undestand it perfectly. That's why I object to the establishment of religion represented by the present tense statement of "under god" illegally appended to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    It's your refusal to acknowledge this truth that fuels this debate. My understanding of the issue is perfect.



    I know that. Now, why the Knights of Columbus decided they could write better poetry than Francis Bellamy I won't ask. The fact of the matter is that IF they were trying to imply a religious heritage with their meddling, they failed. The words imply that the nation is currently being sat on by an invisible sky pixie. Right now.

    That's what present tenses do. They imply current action or status.
    Please give me a list of the impact that the Pledge has on your ability to make a living, your safety, your security, your property rights or material wealth, your pursuit of happiness, or any other right that you might possess. Then show me who is requiring you to recite the Pledge, where they are requiring that your recite it, and how clearly you are required to enunciate it. Take your time. When you think of something, you might have a case. Until then.....you do not have to say the pledge. Are you repeating that? You do not have to say the Pledge.

    P.S. You do not have the right to refuse others the right to say the Pledge.

    The USSC court in it's time has ruled that negros are property, that seperate but equal is legitimate, that seperate but equal is not legitimate, and that babies can be killed in the womb for no good reason. Certainly your faith in the infallibility of the Court is touching.

    You do agree with all those rulings, right?
    Let's first explore what Negros being property has anything to do with the Pledge of Allegiance. And could you point out any Negros that are property today? Also, could you point out my post dealing with my belief in the infallibility of the court?

    You really do need to get a grip.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Except for your lentghy liberal hate comments about Kerry (who I don't think was the best Choice either), I seemed to have gained more respect for you, even though you scream liberal more times than I use the word "the".
    That is what I will never understand.........Why are you so offended by being labeled a Liberal?
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    I think you need to brush up on your history as to what the Declaration of Independence was and the force of law that was behind it. It was essentially the first document agreed to by American colonists determined to be free and while technically not a statute, it definitely was considered to have the force of law behind it.

    There is no mention of God in the Constitution, other than in the innocuous 'blessings' in the Preamble. But it is no accident the very First Amendment gives me the right to talk about God, think about God, write about God, and worship God. The First Amendment prevents you from doing anything to stop me from doing that. The First Amendment does not allow your government to require you to talk about God, think about God, write about God, or worship God. But neither does the Pledge require you to do that. So, there is nothing unconstitutional about the Pledge.
    I have one thing to say....
    “No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship.” (Thomas Jefferson)

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?


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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    http://www.undergodprocon.org/pop/religionchart.htm

    Pay attention to Numbers.... 2, 5,6,7, 9,10,11,12,14,16,17, and 19.

    The total of those may not add up to Christianity, but, is it fair to imply we are "under GOD" when these numberes of American's don't agree?

  6. #756
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    I have one thing to say....
    “No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship.” (Thomas Jefferson)
    Exactly. So that's why the Pledge (or any other government policy, action, or whatever) doesn't compel you.

    Don't forget, however, that it was Thomas Jefferson who wrote the Declaration of Independence, unalientable rights granted by our Creator, and all.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Exactly. So that's why the Pledge (or any other government policy, action, or whatever) doesn't compel you.

    Don't forget, however, that it was Thomas Jefferson who wrote the Declaration of Independence, unalientable rights granted by our Creator, and all.
    And again you haven't answered that rights granted by our Creator doesn't necessarily mean he is refering to a diety.

    "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." (Thomas Jefferson)

    This "wall" was brought down during the McCarthy era of our history.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    "When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power [government], it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." (Benjamin Franklin)
    10/9/1780, from a letter to Richard Price

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    I think you need to brush up on your history as to what the Declaration of Independence was and the force of law that was behind it. It was essentially the first document agreed to by American colonists determined to be free and while technically not a statute, it definitely was considered to have the force of law behind it.
    Oh? What were the punishments for violating the Declaration of Independence? What clauses in the Declaration of Independence could be violated?

    Without the ability to be violated, how can it be considered any form of "law"?

    The DoI was poetry, a list of greivances, a statement of intent, and a definition of who the rebels were. It was never intended as "law".

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    But it is no accident the very First Amendment gives me the right to talk about God, think about God, write about God, and worship God.
    What "rights" are granted in the Constitution?

    None. The Constitution doesn't give a single person a single right. Not a one.

    The Constitution states explicity what the Federal Government cannot do. And BANG you shot yourself in the foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The First Amendment does not allow your government to require you to talk about God
    The correct phrasing of the Pledge of Allegiance is indeed a matter of Law. So you're just wrong.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    My opinion is based on the fact that any American can make of the Pledge whatever they wish and it is optional what they make of it or whether they make anything of it at all.
    But they CAN'T. The Pledge of Allegiance is defined by federal law. Anything else they say is free verse and NOT the officially sanctioned religious statement. If they alter it, it's not THE Pledge of Allegiance.

    Therefore your "fact" is false, and not a fact at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Please give me a list of the impact that the Pledge has on your ability to make a living, your safety, your security, your property rights or material wealth, your pursuit of happiness, or any other right that you might possess.
    My "pursuit of happiness" is impeded to by the federal requirement that I make a prayer to utter the officially designated Pledge of Allegiance.

    [QUOTE=AlbqOwl]P.S. You do not have the right to refuse others the right to say the Pledge.[/quote}

    No one's stopping any superstitutious person from saying his prayers. You can add "under God" all you want, so long it's not part of the legally required utterance. If it's not the big deal you say it isn't, why shouldn't the Constitution be obeyed and the offensive words be removed?


    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Let's first explore what Negros being property has anything to do with the Pledge of Allegiance. And could you point out any Negros that are property today? Also, could you point out my post dealing with my belief in the infallibility of the court?
    I did. Everyone else can figure out what the Dred Scott case has to do with your presumption of judicial infallibility, why can't you?

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