View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #591
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    This is how you can tell a Conservative, Conservatives tend to try to "Conserve" the old way instead of moving forward.
    Progressives (another word for Liberal) tend to try to progress forward to what is required NOW.
    Actually that is not how you can tell a conservative. Of the several types of conservatives only one comes close to what you are saying, the classical conservative. Even classical conservatives do not oppose change, they resist it and want the pace of change to be slow. They generally have no political ideology (They do have preferences however), and realize change is inevitable, and do not really care if the change is to the right or left, as long as it was methodical, using tradition and law as a guide.

    Modern and neoconservatives are politically idealistic and you can bet your last dollar they want change, but only change which attempts to entrench their root ideology even deeper into society, generally preferring assertive policies as their tools. If you have a problem believing this, check out the leadership of this country, and the changes they have made since 2001.

    There are of course more types of conservatives.

    There are three basic types of liberals, the ignorant, the lazy, and the evil.

    I'll spare you the details.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Okay, So because our fore fathers HISTORICALLY believed in some rights given to them by a "God", we are compelled to remain that way?

    This is how you can tell a Conservative, Conservatives tend to try to "Conserve" the old way instead of moving forward.
    Progressives (another word for Liberal) tend to try to progress forward to what is required NOW.

    Personaly I believe that Change is Necessary, we aren't a nation of Christians anymore, OR even believers of "God" for that matter.
    Consevatives don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And they don't try to fix what isn't broken. They are not advocates of change just for the sake of change, and they do have strong values, know exactly why they hold those values, and are willing to defend them.

    You are very wrong about this no longer being a nation of believers in God. A recent Gallup poll showed that more than 90% of Americans do believe in some sort of diety by some name. "God" is about as generic a name as could be used to express the belief held by virtually all our forefathers that we do have inalienable rights that are not devised by or granted by humankind; thus they come from God however one conceives of or thinks of God. That's more than 90% now. Not all Christian. Not all Jewish. Not all Islamic. But people who believe in some sort of diety. That "under God" in the pledge speaks to such diety however He may be perceived.

    Again, there is no requirement that you say the Pledge and no consequence if you do not. Why would you wish to deny so many people a phrase that they do like to say?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    There is no way anybody can show how it has ever been or is an establishment of religion. It is, therefore, after all, an issue of free speech.
    Except for every single court case that I've cited so far which have clearly shown that whether or not something is mandatory, the daily recitation in a school has a coercive effect on the children. In addition, it has been proved that an acknowledgement that we are all "under God" is in fact a declaration of the existance and superiority of a superior being, which not all believe.

    It's unconstitutional.

    Why are people so opposed to simply saying the pledge the way it was meant to be said?

    I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    I don't see how this violates anyones rights.
    Who gives a **** WHAT the founding fathers believed in anyways, what matters is the obvious violation of the 1st amendment that putting it in there in the first place caused.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    I don't see how this violates anyones rights.
    Who gives a **** WHAT the founding fathers believed in anyways, what matters is the obvious violation of the 1st amendment that putting it in there in the first place caused.
    Well, the intents of the founders does come into play in many court decisions. However, in this particular case, if one were to rely on the "true meanings" of the founders, it'd help the argument to keep under god out rather than hinder...
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    All this discussion is interesting and enjoyable,but.When push comes to shove " Under God " is staying in the pledge.Either the Supreme Court is going to keep it their or.The People will amend the Constitution.This is not a red state, blue state dispute. The vast majority of Americans will if forced ,approve an amendment to the Constitution.Iimposing the Pledge with " Under God " in it.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Except for every single court case that I've cited so far which have clearly shown that whether or not something is mandatory, the daily recitation in a school has a coercive effect on the children. In addition, it has been proved that an acknowledgement that we are all "under God" is in fact a declaration of the existance and superiority of a superior being, which not all believe.

    It's unconstitutional.

    Why are people so opposed to simply saying the pledge the way it was meant to be said?

    I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    No it is not unconstitutional and no, it is not coercive. Any teacher who would make it coercive should be fired because s/he would be overstepping the bounds. There is nothing wrong with the Pledge with the phrase 'under God' omitted--many of us learned it that way--and there is nothing wrong with the Pledge with the phrase included. It is a matter of preference. That's it. Pure and simple. Nobody's inalienable or civil rights are being violated in any way with the presence of the phrase. One or two kids who don't want to say it can just omit it and should not be able to deny the rest who do like to say it the opportunity to do so. The parents of the kids who don't want to say it can use it as an educational opportunity to teach tolerance and protocol and the principle of democratic rule.

    That an activist judge makes a ruling based on his personal ideology rather than on principles of law is not a compelling argument that will cause me to change my mind.

    The Pledge is nothing more than a cultural and historical reference, it violates nobody's rights, and thus the majority should decide. When the majority no longer wants it in the Pledge, it will be gone.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHNYJ
    All this discussion is interesting and enjoyable,but.When push comes to shove " Under God " is staying in the pledge.Either the Supreme Court is going to keep it their or.The People will amend the Constitution.This is not a red state, blue state dispute. The vast majority of Americans will if forced ,approve an amendment to the Constitution.Iimposing the Pledge with " Under God " in it.

    I think you're drastically wrong.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    No it is not unconstitutional and no, it is not coercive. Any teacher who would make it coercive should be fired because s/he would be overstepping the bounds. There is nothing wrong with the Pledge with the phrase 'under God' omitted--many of us learned it that way--and there is nothing wrong with the Pledge with the phrase included. It is a matter of preference. That's it. Pure and simple. Nobody's inalienable or civil rights are being violated in any way with the presence of the phrase. One or two kids who don't want to say it can just omit it and should not be able to deny the rest who do like to say it the opportunity to do so. The parents of the kids who don't want to say it can use it as an educational opportunity to teach tolerance and protocol and the principle of democratic rule.
    You're really missing the point. Court case after court case after court case over the past 60 years has said that when something is recited daily in the public schools, whether or not students are required to say it, it is coercive.

    That an activist judge makes a ruling based on his personal ideology rather than on principles of law is not a compelling argument that will cause me to change my mind.
    So every single justice in the past 60 years, not counting Stewart, Rehnquist, Thomas, and Scalia is an "activist judge?"

    The Pledge is nothing more than a cultural and historical reference, it violates nobody's rights, and thus the majority should decide. When the majority no longer wants it in the Pledge, it will be gone.
    Again, the "majority" doesn't decide things like this. The constitution does.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHNYJ
    All this discussion is interesting and enjoyable,but.When push comes to shove " Under God " is staying in the pledge.Either the Supreme Court is going to keep it their or.The People will amend the Constitution.This is not a red state, blue state dispute. The vast majority of Americans will if forced ,approve an amendment to the Constitution.Iimposing the Pledge with " Under God " in it.
    And I agree that you are drastically wrong.
    The only Christians who would really FIGHT for this kind of thing are the nut ball christians who think everyone has to be a christian or the are all going to hell. The extremely Conservative Christsian people. The Progressive Christians don't care either way, they have thier religion, taking god out of our pledge isnt going to hurt them.

    Nut Ball Christian = Pat Robertson

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