View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #581
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    And what a strict constructionist would or wouldn't do isn't really relevant, since the courts have stated unequivocably
    That's correct especiaal since there isn't really one on the SCOTUS, but I joined this part of the discussion based on your comment of what a strict constructionist would do.

    I have enjoyed the exchange, possibly more tomorrow.

    Thanks.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.
    That's correct especiaal since there isn't really one on the SCOTUS, but I joined this part of the discussion based on your comment of what a strict constructionist would do.

    I have enjoyed the exchange, possibly more tomorrow.

    Thanks.
    Agreed, it was enjoyable to have a debate with someone who had a good grasp on the Constitution.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Agreed, it was enjoyable to have a debate with someone who had a good grasp on the Constitution.

    Awwwweee rightnyu found himself a new friend. Ok now I am getting jealous.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the Christian States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with Liberty and Justice for Christians.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the Christian States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, with Liberty and Justice for Christians.
    Or; I pledge allegiance to the Chinese-made flag and to the Republicans for which it stands, one nation under a Christian God, hopelessly divided, with limited liberty and delayed justice for all.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.
    Or; I pledge allegiance to the Chinese-made flag and to the Republicans for which it stands, one nation under a Christian God, hopelessly divided, with limited liberty and delayed justice for all.
    Yeah, that one works pretty good too :P


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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I voted no because I don't care all that much. It really isn't an important issue to me. I do believe in a God, but have been around long enough to see how churches brainwash us into believing in their own version of God, and Christ. Most Christian churches have done little to promote real education, preferring to keep the majority of us ignorant and easily manipulated. The government does much the same. So there is at least one issue where the churches and the government are not seperated, altho I suspect each has its own agenda.
    I have friends who are older than me who want to take a few quotes from a few founding fathers and say that the USA was founded on the Christian religion, but they have their heads in the sand when you show them many more quotes from other founding fathers who were all too aware of the hazards of church and politics getting in the same bed. The founding fathers lived during a time when the Catholic church was losing its stranglehold on government leaders, and surely wanted to see that stranglehold gone forever.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill
    I voted no because I don't care all that much. It really isn't an important issue to me. I do believe in a God, but have been around long enough to see how churches brainwash us into believing in their own version of God, and Christ. Most Christian churches have done little to promote real education, preferring to keep the majority of us ignorant and easily manipulated. The government does much the same. So there is at least one issue where the churches and the government are not seperated, altho I suspect each has its own agenda.
    I have friends who are older than me who want to take a few quotes from a few founding fathers and say that the USA was founded on the Christian religion, but they have their heads in the sand when you show them many more quotes from other founding fathers who were all too aware of the hazards of church and politics getting in the same bed. The founding fathers lived during a time when the Catholic church was losing its stranglehold on government leaders, and surely wanted to see that stranglehold gone forever.
    I agree completely.
    I don't understand it really. The founding fathers lived in a time where even if you DIDN'T believe in "God", it didn't behoove you to let others know that. As much persecution that was going on just due to differen't ways of practicing christianity, I think Athiests would have been persecuted even more. In fact, I doubt if there were ANY openly truthful Athiests back then. (Again, for the shallow minded, I didn't say THERE WERE NONE, I said "I" Doubt). So all those who try to quote the Founding Fathers on the fact that this country IS and was INTENDED to be a Christian country.......Try to remember what history can tell you about what life was like back in the 1700s

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    I agree completely.
    I don't understand it really. The founding fathers lived in a time where even if you DIDN'T believe in "God", it didn't behoove you to let others know that. As much persecution that was going on just due to differen't ways of practicing christianity, I think Athiests would have been persecuted even more. In fact, I doubt if there were ANY openly truthful Athiests back then. (Again, for the shallow minded, I didn't say THERE WERE NONE, I said "I" Doubt). So all those who try to quote the Founding Fathers on the fact that this country IS and was INTENDED to be a Christian country.......Try to remember what history can tell you about what life was like back in the 1700s
    Very few on the pro-Pledge side have used any kind of "Christian" argument in this issue and most, in fact, have rejected tieing the Pledge to any kind of Christian doctrine or meaning. The "under God" phrase is acknowledgment of the historical belief, professed by virtually ALL the founders, that all of us are possessed of certain inalienable God given rights and these are never to be messed with by anybody. This notion of the historical belief in God-given rights is affirmed in the preambles of 49 of the 50 states.

    Those who do not wish to say it are not compelled to do so, while a majority of Americans do like to recite that phrase. It has now been recited by most Americans for more than 50 years without turning anybody into a religious nutcase nor creating any kind of theocracy anywhere. In fact, despite that phrase in the Pledge, there are many more professed athiests and agnostics than there were when the Pledge in its current form was initiated.

    Now it comes down to a matter of tolerance. Those who do not wish to repeat the Pledge or the phrase do not have to do so, are not obvious if they do not, and disrupt nothing. But remove the phrase on the theory that the majority can say it if they wish, it will cause a disruption to say words that are not included.

    I personally think it is wrong for the minority to attempt to impose its will on the majority for something that is nothing more than a personal preference. The minority would not take kindly to that if the situation was reversed and it was their right of free speech that was being trashed.

    There is no way anybody can show how it has ever been or is an establishment of religion. It is, therefore, after all, an issue of free speech.

    (P.S. Anybody who thinks the Founders of this country were not strong, opinionated, and thoughtful men who would have shied away from expressing their opinion or thoughts about anything, simply hasn't read enough of their history.)
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Very few on the pro-Pledge side have used any kind of "Christian" argument in this issue and most, in fact, have rejected tieing the Pledge to any kind of Christian doctrine or meaning. The "under God" phrase is acknowledgment of the historical belief, professed by virtually ALL the founders, that all of us are possessed of certain inalienable God given rights and these are never to be messed with by anybody. This notion of the historical belief in God-given rights is affirmed in the preambles of 49 of the 50 states.

    Those who do not wish to say it are not compelled to do so, while a majority of Americans do like to recite that phrase. It has now been recited by most Americans for more than 50 years without turning anybody into a religious nutcase nor creating any kind of theocracy anywhere. In fact, despite that phrase in the Pledge, there are many more professed athiests and agnostics than there were when the Pledge in its current form was initiated.

    Now it comes down to a matter of tolerance. Those who do not wish to repeat the Pledge or the phrase do not have to do so, are not obvious if they do not, and disrupt nothing. But remove the phrase on the theory that the majority can say it if they wish, it will cause a disruption to say words that are not included.

    I personally think it is wrong for the minority to attempt to impose its will on the majority for something that is nothing more than a personal preference. The minority would not take kindly to that if the situation was reversed and it was their right of free speech that was being trashed.

    There is no way anybody can show how it has ever been or is an establishment of religion. It is, therefore, after all, an issue of free speech.

    (P.S. Anybody who thinks the Founders of this country were not strong, opinionated, and thoughtful men who would have shied away from expressing their opinion or thoughts about anything, simply hasn't read enough of their history.)
    Okay, So because our fore fathers HISTORICALLY believed in some rights given to them by a "God", we are compelled to remain that way?

    This is how you can tell a Conservative, Conservatives tend to try to "Conserve" the old way instead of moving forward.
    Progressives (another word for Liberal) tend to try to progress forward to what is required NOW.

    Personaly I believe that Change is Necessary, we aren't a nation of Christians anymore, OR even believers of "God" for that matter.

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