View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I agree with that.
    As do I! My father was one of many school kids kicked out of school in the late 1930's, because of their refusal to recite the pledge due to their religion. Forced patriotism isn't real patriotism, and it's only value is in showing what control government has over the citizens.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.
    As do I! My father was one of many school kids kicked out of school in the late 1930's, because of their refusal to recite the pledge due to their religion. Forced patriotism isn't real patriotism, and it's only value is in showing what control government has over the citizens.
    Yep I find it repulsive to force anything on anyone. Unless if its having 5EX with a virgin Ok that was a joke go ahead and laugh.

    Yes back in the revolutionary war the patriots didnt enforce anything upon the loyalists and we still won a decisive battle.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    No it wasnt. EVerytime I had included facts they couldnt understand them so which is true to those statements. The when I dissected the sentence in the constitution for them they still couldnt get it so again my comments were facts.
    Well excuse me, I am not "they" and when you post to me and comment on they, I have no way of knowing this if you don't tell me.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    In nowhere in the constitution does it refer to God so stop trying to argue that it does becasue its serioualy getting rediculous. I already had this argument about 20times in this thread. Just read it.
    There you go again, creating false positions and wanting me to defend them. I haven't mentioned God. Perhaps you are confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Nevermind dude. You are making me laugh hysterically. I like that.
    What, couldn't find an assumption?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    What in the sam hill are you talking about? Is this have to do with anything of what we are talking about?
    Real easy for someone so commanding of the english language. Just remove doobie and insert the name of the god of your choice. My analogy explains itself very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    The only doobie I know is a joint or the band back in the 70's.
    Is this the assumption I supposedly made?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    What really matters is what the majority of people want. We are the governemnt not the politiicans(well at least thats how it should be and the fore fathers wanted that as well).
    My poor misguided friend. First off, this is not a democracy we live in, and secondly, if it is decided by the SCOTUS that the phrase "under God" is covered under the FA, then what the majority wants will be damned. What the "fore fathers" wanted (One of the things they wanted)," was for "rights" not to be at the whim of the majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    If the majority of the American people want the pledge to be mandatory with the phrase then it will be constitutional casue they made it constitutional and vice versa.
    What the majority wants and does not want has no bearing on the constitutionality of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I am just arguing with what the majority will say. And in a democracy thats all that matters. I dont quite think the majority is on your side other than a handful of people and the ACLU of course.
    Again, we do not have a democracy, and the majority is not all that matters, in fact the framers saw the danger of "rights" falling to the majority, or being decided by the majority and they rejected democracy. Whether the majority is on my side or not is irrelevant, and you seem so confused that I doubt if you even know what "my side" is. Of course you could assign me a position or side to defend, such as you have done at least twice now.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Well excuse me, I am not "they" and when you post to me and comment on they, I have no way of knowing this if you don't tell me.
    Ok fair enough

    There you go again, creating false positions and wanting me to defend them. I haven't mentioned God. Perhaps you are confused
    Ok fair enough

    What, couldn't find an assumption?
    Well unless if you can explain yourself alittle more decisively mabe I wont be able to assume. But this is what your leading me to assume under inacurate posts. Sorry my mistake if you already agree with that.

    Real easy for someone so commanding of the english language. Just remove doobie and insert the name of the god of your choice. My analogy explains itself very well.
    I still dont understand you here buddy.


    My poor misguided friend. First off, this is not a democracy we live in, and secondly, if it is decided by the SCOTUS that the phrase "under God" is covered under the FA, then what the majority wants will be damned. What the "fore fathers" wanted (One of the things they wanted)," was for "rights" not to be at the whim of the majority.
    See this is where it gets sticky casue they also wanted the people to be heard as well. So thats where the constitution has loop holes. You catch my drift?

    What the majority wants and does not want has no bearing on the constitutionality of anything.
    Yes it does. We the people have the right to instill anything we want if the vote is there.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Yes it does. We the people have the right to instill anything we want if the vote is there.
    This is the heart of this entire debate. The Founders wrote into the Constitution protections of inalienable rights that they believed to be God given (ergo the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge) and thus are not to be messed with by anybody, not even the Supreme Court. The protections they wrote into the Constitution ensure that even a majority cannot override those inalienable rights. If they attempt to do so by amendment or any other means, the Constitution will fail and so will the Republic it designs and defends.

    The Founders were also first and foremost concerned that the tyranny of government never be manifested in this country and that is what the First Amendment as well as the rest of the Bill of Rights is all about. Where no individual inalienable right is involved, it is the will of the people, expressed through their elected representatives, that shall prevail.

    That is why I have said all along that the phrase 'under God' neither establishes a religion nor does it violate anybody's inalienable rights in any way, and thus it is entirely consitutional and is present because a majority of people want it to be there. That majority represents the will of the people that is also constitutionally protected.

    At such time as a majority of people object to its being there, it will be gone. That's the way democractic principles structured within a Republic should work and in fact do work.

    On the next issue like this, those who object to the Pledge may be on the side of the majority; and I guarantee you they'll have no problem with the majority will prevailing then. :smile:
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 09-27-05 at 10:12 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Yes it does. We the people have the right to instill anything we want if the vote is there.
    No such right exists. The only vote the Constitution gives us is the vote to elect Representatives to the House of Representatives.

    The Seventeenth Amendment gave us the vote for Senators.

    Amendments are the only way of instilling "anything we want," and that's the domain of state legislatures, which at their will can put it to vote, but we have no "right" to vote on them included in the Constitution.

    Other than an amendment vote allowed by a state, any vote which instill's "anything we want" and attempts to remove a "right," would be unconstitutional and within the powers of the courts.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    That is why I have said all along that the phrase 'under God' neither establishes a religion nor does it violate anybody's inalienable rights in any way, and thus it is entirely consitutional and is present because a majority of people want it to be there. That majority represents the will of the people that is also constitutionally protected.
    I also believe that "the phrase 'under God' neither establishes a religion but I am concerned that it would violate everyone's inalienable rights "if" one were required to pledge, whether or not the "under God" phrase is included or not. If in a particular group everyone could make the choice, I would have no problem, but if just one abstains, I believe the courts to be ridiculous enough to see a rights violation because the exposure violated their right to privacy, or some such nonsense.

    BTW, Very good post
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    No such right exists. The only vote the Constitution gives us is the vote to elect Representatives to the House of Representatives.
    You are so wrong on this it isnt funny. We the people have the right to instill anyhting and vote on propositions. There could be a propostion to be voted on a loca level on this which will prolly end up hapening. We just dont vote on representantives. What country do you live in? We vote for just about every and anybody in gov. Except technically the Pres. Yes the reps represent us but we stil vote for everyone from mayor to governor. That is a fact too.

    This is the heart of this entire debate. The Founders wrote into the Constitution protections of inalienable rights that they believed to be God given (ergo the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge) and thus are not to be messed with by anybody, not even the Supreme Court. The protections they wrote into the Constitution ensure that even a majority cannot override those inalienable rights. If they attempt to do so by amendment or any other means, the Constitution will fail and so will the Republic it designs and defends.

    The Founders were also first and foremost concerned that the tyranny of government never be manifested in this country and that is what the First Amendment as well as the rest of the Bill of Rights is all about. Where no individual inalienable right is involved, it is the will of the people, expressed through their elected representatives, that shall prevail.

    That is why I have said all along that the phrase 'under God' neither establishes a religion nor does it violate anybody's inalienable rights in any way, and thus it is entirely consitutional and is present because a majority of people want it to be there. That majority represents the will of the people that is also constitutionally protected.

    At such time as a majority of people object to its being there, it will be gone. That's the way democractic principles structured within a Republic should work and in fact do work.

    On the next issue like this, those who object to the Pledge may be on the side of the majority; and I guarantee you they'll have no problem with the majority will prevailing then.
    Did you get that CJ?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    You are so wrong on this it isnt funny. We the people have the right to instill anyhting and vote on propositions. There could be a propostion to be voted on a loca level on this which will prolly end up hapening. We just dont vote on representantives. What country do you live in? We vote for just about every and anybody in gov. Except technically the Pres. Yes the reps represent us but we stil vote for everyone from mayor to governor. That is a fact too.

    Still confused??? Read my post again, the government through the constitution and an amendment gives you the vote for certain things (Reps and Senators). Unless you believe the government is the benefactor of rights, then you are mistaken. Again on a local level, the state or local jurisdiction gives you the vote, and again unless you believe the state or local jurisdiction is the benefactor of rights, then you are again mistaken. In the case of the Pres, it is the state legislatures responsibility to select electors, in a manner of their choosing, and I believe now all have given their citizens the vote as their manner of selection. Constitutionally any state legislature can rescind this decision and select another manner. This doesn't sound like a right, because it isn't one.

    Yes, you can vote on initiatives and propositions, not as a right, but as a power given you by a state or local jurisdiction, but all that are passed are subject to court problems if they violate someone's rights.

    I'll give you another simple analogy. Suppose voters in a city passed a proposition to force all blacks to move to the south side of town, and wear bells when out after dark, because they are hard to see. Just because it's what the majority wants, will it be allow by the courts to stand? Will it be constitutional because it's what the majority want?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    We vote for just about every and anybody in gov.
    I didn't suggest we did not vote, just that it's not a right. There is a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Did you get that CJ?
    Sure I did, but I believe you missed it, especially; "The protections they wrote into the Constitution ensure that even a majority cannot override those inalienable rights."

    That kinda blows up your premise that "We the people have the right to instill anyhting and vote on propositions."
    Last edited by C.J.; 09-27-05 at 11:03 PM.
    I read a report that said the typical symptoms of stress were eating too much, drinking too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Who are they kidding? That's my idea of a perfect day.----Unknown

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate
    Has anyone even been in a class room in the last 15 years?!

    Most students say the pledge out of habit. They don't car what it says, it's just repititious.

    I'm an athiest and I simply omited that part when I said the plegde and I graduated in 2000.

    There are more important issues than this why are we waisting time?!
    Whether there are more important issues or not is not the question...the case is before the court, so it's going to be decided one way or the other.

    Under god should be removed from the pledge.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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