View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
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    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #511
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Likewise to be honest with you, it was just a joke really. Do you really think I am that stupid to flame a moderator? All you would have to do is a couple clicks and I ma gone.
    Just so you know, mods try to refrain from moderating on posts that they're involved in, so no worries about me blasting you...

    O well again why would I even want to equivocate that? Thats senseless waisting of time on a keyboard . Besides I think there are more important things at hand other than equivocating cases to one another. And as I said before my major isnt law. I just am interested in the constitution itself. You must be a law major? Am I correct? Trying to be a lawyer or something?
    Judge, someday soon hopefully.

    No its not. This simple question will solidify this debate. Was there a century standing next to you at your college during "pledge of allegiance time" watching to make sure you recited it word for word? Ok now that thats finished next debate.
    I don't mean mandated in that each individual is mandated to recite it. I mean mandated in that the school is mandated to have the pledge read. That is unconstitutional.

    I didnt know it costs money to speak and recite a sentence?

    But with all money matters aside. You didnt answer the question. I asked you healthfully does it inflict any harm?

    It doesnt cost anymore tax money to recite a pledge in a public school due to it costing the same amount regardless whether you recite a pledge or not.
    It costs tax money when a teacher, funded by the public tax rolls, is forced to spend time, even if only a short while, each day, to recite a religious activity.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  2. #512
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    And nowhere were we debating the NYT.
    Well the trial was covered by the NYT so indirectly I added it into it

    Actually, I was saying you were ignorant because of your foolish claim that all those who respected the work of the NYT or the WP had a "mental disorder." What my party really needs is more people making blanket accusations. Great.
    I'll post this again for you, because you didn't seem to catch it:


    "Neither the fact that the prayer may be denominationally neutral nor the fact that its observance on the part of the students is voluntary can serve to free it from the limitations of the Establishment Clause, as it might from the Free Exercise Clause, of the First Amendment, both of which are operative against the states by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment."

    There it is, in black and white, LAW.

    Even though recitation is voluntary, religious activities that are imposed by a government entity in public schools are NOT constitutional. So you are, on all counts, unequivocably wrong. No debate. No interpretation. No discussion. I'm eagerly awaiting your acknowledgement of your error.
    Again you just said it not constitutional in public schools. Well thats the whole flaw right there. That clause is in direct hypocrisy with everything else it bestowes as religious conotatons are predominantly in gov endorsed fields. So if that held to be true then the gov would have to do away with the liberty bell, then the display of 10 commandments in every courtroom and any other public arena, and the resesitation of God in all public areas casue technically all public areas are governmentally endorsed. That means no one could profess to anyone about their religion unless in their church or in their home which is profoundly WRONG!!! under the 1st ammendment. Dont you get it? If this holds to be true then gov is actually cuting speech not exhonerating it. There is soon going to be a time where the ACLU is going to take over and remove God and all religions from this whole country and proclaim its unconstitutional. Right now you are taking that next step down the stairs buddy. And the CLU is sucking you right in. I am not saying lets bestow all religion in all forms and fields of gov. But somewhere you must draw the line and the rate we are going I can gaurantee you the next 100yrs it will be illegal to even talk about religion on the streets anymore.

    Its a very sad thing.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Just so you know, mods try to refrain from moderating on posts that they're involved in, so no worries about me blasting you...
    O good casue I WOULD PROLLY BE GONE ALREADY

    I know you were getting annoyed. But thats what a debate is all about. If you can inflict upon him enough talking points and other facts and evidentiary support it will overwhelm the other person to the point of exhaustion or apathy in regards to the matter. But I must say it was fun. I enjoyed myslef even though I have to wake up for class in like 4hrs.

    Judge, someday soon hopefully
    Well I will be honest with you. You do have potential. The only thing I would say is you must not get soo worked up that if someone doesnt agree with you. You got to keep your cool and let the other guy make himself look like a fool. But I will say this you do prolly know more than I do about law a matter a fact you do know more. Well sh!t you are the Pres. of NYU? I beleive I didnt get your name? You better be smart, hahaha.

    I don't mean mandated in that each individual is mandated to recite it. I mean mandated in that the school is mandated to have the pledge read. That is unconstitutional.
    Well you need to specify then. I still think its unconstitutional for the pledge to be mandated anyway even if it had no reference to God in it. Thats just my opinion. I will be damed if they put a mandate on what I have to say.

    It costs tax money when a teacher, funded by the public tax rolls, is forced to spend time, even if only a short while, each day, to recite a religious activity.
    Well thats just the thing(argument) it can be argumented that its not a religion or having to do with anything of religion. Its a person/spirit that we talk(pray) to. So therefor it wouldnt cost money. But teachers are on salary not hourly. So like I said if it were to be putruled that God isnt religion nor does he act as one then you wouldnt spend a dime on it so then what would you say then? Just out of curiosity thats all. Honestly.

  4. #514
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Actually, the Federal government does not mandate that the Pledge be recited. That is left up to the individual states to decide and, in many cases, the individual school. Some of you who have your shorts in a wad over the Pledge might have success simply petitioning your local school board.

    The Federal government has no authority over an independent school district other than the ability to enforce Federal law, and the only power the Federal government holds is that it can specify what criteria is necessary to receive federal funding. No state or school district is required to accept federal funding, and the Pledge has never been a criteria for receiving federal funding.

    Isn't it a perversion of the whole principle of individual freedom when the Federal government is petitioned to make a particular ideology mandatory for everybody? Especially when such ideology is out of step with the community as a whole?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Actually, the Federal government does not mandate that the Pledge be recited. That is left up to the individual states to decide and, in many cases, the individual school. Some of you who have your shorts in a wad over the Pledge might have success simply petitioning your local school board.

    The Federal government has no authority over an independent school district other than the ability to enforce Federal law, and the only power the Federal government holds is that it can specify what criteria is necessary to receive federal funding. No state or school district is required to accept federal funding, and the Pledge has never been a criteria for receiving federal funding.

    Isn't it a perversion of the whole principle of individual freedom when the Federal government is petitioned to make a particular ideology mandatory for everybody? Especially when such ideology is out of step with the community as a whole?

    What's "out of step"? Government showing no favoritism towards religion or nonreligion? That not so much "out of step" as it is constitutional.

  6. #516
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again you just said it not constitutional in public schools. Well thats the whole flaw right there. That clause is in direct hypocrisy with everything else it bestowes as religious conotatons are predominantly in gov endorsed fields. So if that held to be true then the gov would have to do away with the liberty bell, then the display of 10 commandments in every courtroom and any other public arena, and the resesitation of God in all public areas casue technically all public areas are governmentally endorsed. That means no one could profess to anyone about their religion unless in their church or in their home which is profoundly WRONG!!! under the 1st ammendment. Dont you get it? If this holds to be true then gov is actually cuting speech not exhonerating it. There is soon going to be a time where the ACLU is going to take over and remove God and all religions from this whole country and proclaim its unconstitutional. Right now you are taking that next step down the stairs buddy. And the CLU is sucking you right in. I am not saying lets bestow all religion in all forms and fields of gov. But somewhere you must draw the line and the rate we are going I can gaurantee you the next 100yrs it will be illegal to even talk about religion on the streets anymore.

    Its a very sad thing.
    Actually, that's not true. As I posted earlier:

    The fact that the Liberty Bell has a biblical quote on it does make it religious in nature. However, this does not necessarily mean that it is not proper for government to be endorsing of it. There are special exemptions for religion in the public arena that have been deemed constitutional by the courts.

    A) In cases of conflict between Establishment and Free Exercise
    B) Establishment and Exercises in legislative bodies
    C) Non-Devotional use of the Bible in the Public Schools
    D) Uniform tax exemptions incidentally available to religious institutions
    E) Religious considerations in public welfare programs
    F) Activities which, though religious in origin, have ceased to be religious in nature

    The last one there is what the Liberty Bell would fall under. It is also the same precedent that the defendents in the "under God" case will be claiming exonerates them, but the circumstances point pretty clearly toward the pledge not falling under this clause.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Actually, the Federal government does not mandate that the Pledge be recited. That is left up to the individual states to decide and, in many cases, the individual school. Some of you who have your shorts in a wad over the Pledge might have success simply petitioning your local school board.

    The Federal government has no authority over an independent school district other than the ability to enforce Federal law, and the only power the Federal government holds is that it can specify what criteria is necessary to receive federal funding. No state or school district is required to accept federal funding, and the Pledge has never been a criteria for receiving federal funding.

    Isn't it a perversion of the whole principle of individual freedom when the Federal government is petitioned to make a particular ideology mandatory for everybody? Especially when such ideology is out of step with the community as a whole?

    It doesn't matter one bit if the federal government, state government, or local school boards mandate it. That's what the 14th amendment is for.

    It's unconstitutional.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I'm only posting this because SKILMATIC is blatantly lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Well in his post he proclaims I had a problem with the difference between 2 very different words. But infact I didnt. I told him to define them for me. Which when he finally did he got all upset after I debacled him again.
    See post #409

    Also I have always beena huge supporter of seperation of chirch and state but God isnt a religion and has no ties with such.
    See post #431

    Its the religions who use God as their reasoning. God has nothing to do with it. God is a spirit. How many times do I have to tell you. You know the comment can go both ways that nothing is getting through. But when it all comes down to it. Does the constitution ever mention one thing about God whether it should be extradited or included? No so therefore the argument can go both ways. Religion doesnt equal God. There arent the same.
    See the US Constitution. God was left out of the Cosntitution intentionally, so in effect God was kept out of government.

    Due to the pledge not being mandated then the pledge is constitutional as is. Just like since prayer is mandated in a public school(which is a gov endorsed establishment) we can still pray however and whenever we want. Just like the pledge even though its endorsed by Gov we can say it however and whever we like. So theres no argument. Its ok as is. Any questions?
    Already debunked this, if anyone cares to read the thread and make their own conclusion, please do. Btw, "debacle" is a noun, not a verb. I'm thinking this guy isn't even serious, but a mere troll.

  9. #519
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Has anyone even been in a class room in the last 15 years?!

    Most students say the pledge out of habit. They don't car what it says, it's just repititious.

    I'm an athiest and I simply omited that part when I said the plegde and I graduated in 2000.

    There are more important issues than this why are we waisting time?!

  10. #520
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Actually, that's not true. As I posted earlier:
    Read what you just said. You said and correct me if I am wrong, that when gov endorses anything having to do with religion its unconstitutional correct?

    Or is this not what you said in earlier posts?

    I could be wrong.

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