View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
Page 49 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3947484950515999 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 1064

Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #481
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    RightatNYU,

    One more thing, any ideas for raising public awareness of our Constitution? We, as a country, are terribly (dangerously?) ignorant of the Constituiton as you can see in this thread alone. (Maybe this should be another thread...)
    http://www.nyu.edu/ofp/constitution_day.html

    In December, 2004, Senator Robert Byrd, a West Virginia Democrat and the United States Congress unofficial constitutional scholar, offered an amendment in an attempt to increase knowledge among primary, secondary, and post-secondary students about the Constitution. Congress approved this amendment and the law now requires institutions to raise awareness of the U.S. Constitution around the anniversary of the signing of the Constitution on September 17.
    As of this year, it's mandated that every single federally funded institution hold a Constitution Day. I think it's one of the best ideas (albeit an unfunded mandate) to come out of Congress in the past 10 years.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  2. #482
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    Looks like you missed my post so I'll just move it right...here.





    OK. Time to pull out the dictionary. (dictionary.com, that is)

    es·tab·lish·ment Audio pronunciation of "establishment" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-stblsh-mnt)
    n.

    1.
    1. The act of establishing.
    2. The condition or fact of being established.
    2. Something established, as:
    1. An arranged order or system, especially a legal code.
    2. A permanent civil, political, or military organization.
    3. An established church.
    4. A place of residence or business with its possessions and staff.
    5. A public or private institution, such as a hospital or school.
    3. often Establishment An established social order, as:
    1. A group of people holding most of the power and influence in a government or society. Often used with the.
    2. A controlling group in a given field of activity. Often used with the.

    As you can see this word goes beyond "place of worship". If the framers wanted to say "place of worship" or "church" they would have said so. Insetad they carefully chose the word "establishment" and not just because it's fancy.



    What do you mean that we "had" God and prayer in schools? We still do. Looks like I found a way out.




    I don't even think you have to go as far to fight, but to stand up for what our Constitution says in order to be a patriotic American. That can certainly include fighting for it. The words start off with "I pledge allegiance, to the flag" I was saying that if we should make a pledge to something, it should be to our Constitution, not a flag (even though ours is very nice).
    I absolutely love you for bringing that out casue now I can debacle you again. I love when people bring out the dictionary casue you cannot refute it. Ok here we go. When establishment is put infront or after a DO that further describes its meaning such as religion it then falls under definition first number 3 nothing else.

    Now if the constitution had said congress shall pass no law in respecting the establishments of the Navy then it would fall under definition the thrid number 2 down nothing else. It si in the foundations of the English language that we can dissect and see what the words truly mean. So therefore the rest of the definitions of that word are meaningless casue they are out of the constext in which the word is being used.

  3. #483
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Ok then if congress cannot make no law concerning it then they didnt. Becasue under God has nothing to do with establishments of religion. God is a spirit not a religion. Do you at least understand that? And an establishment is formerly and mostly known as a place. Please show me otherwise. And I will be more abliged to argue with you on this point.

    I love the arguments so keep them coming.
    YOU show me how God is not connected to religion. The only one that comes close that I can think of is the God of Deism. Although I am a Deist myself, it wouldn't be right or constitutional for the government to favor It.

  4. #484
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Ok then if congress cannot make no law concerning it then they didnt. Becasue under God has nothing to do with establishments of religion. God is a spirit not a religion. Do you at least understand that? And an establishment is formerly and mostly known as a place. Please show me otherwise. And I will be more abliged to argue with you on this point.

    I love the arguments so keep them coming.
    You are woefully ignorant of commonly held knowledge.

    First off, the Establishment clause has nothing to do with "establishment" in terms of place, it is solely meant to discuss the establishment, endorsement, or support of any religion by the government.

    "Neither the fact that the prayer may be denominationally neutral nor the fact that its observance on the part of the students is voluntary can serve to free it from the limitations of the Establishment Clause, as it might from the Free Exercise Clause, of the First Amendment, both of which are operative against the states by virtue of the Fourteenth Amendment."

    Engel v. Vitale (such a great case)

    Thus, whether "God" is a religion or a spirit is irrelevant.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #485
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    Oh no, please don't debacle me! Anyways, you are wrong.



    How about this:

    "The Board of Regents as amicus curiae, the respondents and intervenors all concede the religious nature of prayer, but seek to distinguish this prayer because it is based on our spiritual heritage.

    The petitioners contend among other things that the state laws requiring or permitting use of the Regents prayer must be struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause because that prayer was composed by governmental officials as a part of a government program to further religious beliefs. For this reason, petitioners argue, the State's use of the Regents' prayer in its public school system breaches the constitutional wall of separation between Church and State. We agree with this contention since we think that the constitutional prohibition against laws respecting an establishment of religion must at least mean that in this country it is no part of the business of government to compose official prayers for any group of the American people to recite as part of a religious program carried on by government."

    Majority opinion, Engel v. Vitale.

    There it is for you in black and white. This case is almost IDENTICAL to Engel v. Vitale, the only reason it hasn't been decided in Summary Judgment is because the interest groups allied in favor of keeping "under god" in the pledge are so powerful. The fact of the matter is, the courts decided this matter over 40 years ago, and it will meet the same fate.



    You're right, you can. But what you cannot do is mandate that that prayer be recited each day.



    Uh, because you say that a Supreme Court precedent is bologna makes it so? What the founders did has no bearing on what the constitution says. The founders supported slavery, and suffrage for white, property holding males only. I don't see people using that as an argument against the 15th and 19th amendments...



    Well, that's cute that you "debacled" the arguments. If only you had the courts, history, precedent, or logic on your side, maybe you could have "debated" them properly.
    Well heres what you forgot to point out. Congress ruled that a mandated prayer was unconstitutional but we are still allowed to pray in school. But what you forget was that the pledge isnt mandated by the federal gov or local gov. therefore it is decisively constitutional. Now if it was mandated as I have said before then it would be unconstotutional becasue I feel that no one has the right to make you sat anythung so therefore just recite the pledge however you feel like it. There you go, debacled. Any questions on what you just said for your argument? I will be happy to interpret them for you

  6. #486
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I absolutely love you for bringing that out casue now I can debacle you again. I love when people bring out the dictionary casue you cannot refute it. Ok here we go. When establishment is put infront or after a DO that further describes its meaning such as religion it then falls under definition first number 3 nothing else.

    Now if the constitution had said congress shall pass no law in respecting the establishments of the Navy then it would fall under definition the thrid number 2 down nothing else. It si in the foundations of the English language that we can dissect and see what the words truly mean. So therefore the rest of the definitions of that word are meaningless casue they are out of the constext in which the word is being used.
    Oh my god, are you kidding me? You are completely and utterly misinterpreting the Constitution.

    Ask 1000 Constitutional scholars if what you're claiming is true, and 1000 will tell you no.

    I've heard of people interpreting the Constitution differently, but this is something else.

    It has NOTHING to do with places of religion in that sense of the word establishment.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  7. #487
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Well heres what you forgot to point out. Congress ruled that a mandated prayer was unconstitutional but we are still allowed to pray in school. But what you forget was that the pledge isnt mandated by the federal gov or local gov. therefore it is decisively constitutional. Now if it was mandated as I have said before then it would be unconstotutional becasue I feel that no one has the right to make you sat anythung so therefore just recite the pledge however you feel like it. There you go, debacled. Any questions on what you just said for your argument? I will be happy to interpret them for you
    Wow.

    I'll try to type a little slower for you.

    The recitation of the pledge is mandated by local and state school boards, exactly the same as in Engel v. Vitale. While RECITATION of the pledge by individual students is not required, recitation by the school IS. This is a clear violation of the Establishment clause.

    So, by your own words, because recitation is mandated, you agree that it is unconstitutional. I'm glad we cleared that up.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  8. #488
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Well heres what you forgot to point out. Congress ruled that a mandated prayer was unconstitutional but we are still allowed to pray in school. But what you forget was that the pledge isnt mandated by the federal gov or local gov. therefore it is decisively constitutional. Now if it was mandated as I have said before then it would be unconstotutional becasue I feel that no one has the right to make you sat anythung so therefore just recite the pledge however you feel like it. There you go, debacled. Any questions on what you just said for your argument? I will be happy to interpret them for you
    In addition, by virtue of the Equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, the bill of rights was made binding on state and local governments, so the protections carry over.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #489
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I absolutely love you for bringing that out casue now I can debacle you again. I love when people bring out the dictionary casue you cannot refute it. Ok here we go. When establishment is put infront or after a DO that further describes its meaning such as religion it then falls under definition first number 3 nothing else.

    Now if the constitution had said congress shall pass no law in respecting the establishments of the Navy then it would fall under definition the thrid number 2 down nothing else. It si in the foundations of the English language that we can dissect and see what the words truly mean. So therefore the rest of the definitions of that word are meaningless casue they are out of the constext in which the word is being used.
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" It's a shame you can't appreciate the beauty of this, the reason we have such a free society. If I were you, I wouldn't put too much stock in your knowledge of the English language. I guess all these experts on the Constitution are lacking your (in)ability to interpret this.

  10. #490
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightatNYU
    http://www.nyu.edu/ofp/constitution_day.html



    As of this year, it's mandated that every single federally funded institution hold a Constitution Day. I think it's one of the best ideas (albeit an unfunded mandate) to come out of Congress in the past 10 years.
    Aww, man. Sept 22? Well, there's always next year. Next year there will be the National Day of Reason on May 4th. I'll have to be sure to celebrate both.

Page 49 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3947484950515999 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •