View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
Page 45 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3543444546475595 ... LastLast
Results 441 to 450 of 1064

Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #441
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Oh yes, how could I forget. There was no pledge when the founding fathers were present. Apparantly, it would seem that they themselves found it unecessary since they didn't bother with one. I whole heartedly agree with them.

  2. #442
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Oh yes, how could I forget. There was no pledge when the founding fathers were present. Apparantly, it would seem that they themselves found it unecessary since they didn't bother with one. I whole heartedly agree with them.
    Again you just said it it references religion but it isnt religion which is what the constitution stingently says. Also I agree with you to about the founding fathers.

    IMO to me I still havent figured out if we need it or not. I would say arguments could be presented on both sides very well. However, I think soon the pledge will be banned all together. IMO I think it will be sad. Again I am not going to debate whether or not the pledge should be legal but its just my opinion.

    But on the other hand IMO I think if gov enforces and makes us recite the pledge then thats unconstitutional. I think it should solely be voluntary.

  3. #443
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,116

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again you just said it it references religion but it isnt religion which is what the constitution stingently says. Also I agree with you to about the founding fathers.

    IMO to me I still havent figured out if we need it or not. I would say arguments could be presented on both sides very well. However, I think soon the pledge will be banned all together. IMO I think it will be sad. Again I am not going to debate whether or not the pledge should be legal but its just my opinion.

    But on the other hand IMO I think if gov enforces and makes us recite the pledge then thats unconstitutional. I think it should solely be voluntary.
    The law, which I previously posted a reference to, is very specific that no person can be required to recite the pledge. In other words there is no reward and no consequence for reciting or not reciting the pledge.

    The phrase 'under God' is a nonstarter for me. I like it, but I don't need it. My whole agenda here is that in all issues that have no consequence, the will of the people should prevail and a small angry minority should not be allowed to impose their will on the majority. For decades now, the minority has been successful in using the courts to erode little freedoms enjoyed by the minority--you can't have a manger scene in the city park at Christmas, the highschool choir has to discontinue presenting Handel's Messiah in the Christmas concert, a county can't have a small cross, symbolic of the founding Catholic friars, on its 100-year-old county seal, a predominantly Jewish school can't hang a framed copy of the Ten Commandments in the hall, etc. etc. etc. That's just the religious stuff. We won't even get into the rights of property owners that are also being eroded in the interest of the "public good."

    At some point we all have to say enough is enough and demand that the community reclaim its right to be who or what it is so long as indiividual rights are not jeopardized. If we keep caving in, then pretty soon a small organized bunch of angry, narrow minded, activists will have complete control and will run the whole show. I think that is never what the Constitution intended. And so, I fight for the majority will to prevail where the Pledge is concerned.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #444
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again you just said it it references religion but it isnt religion which is what the constitution stingently says. Also I agree with you to about the founding fathers.

    IMO to me I still havent figured out if we need it or not. I would say arguments could be presented on both sides very well. However, I think soon the pledge will be banned all together. IMO I think it will be sad. Again I am not going to debate whether or not the pledge should be legal but its just my opinion.

    But on the other hand IMO I think if gov enforces and makes us recite the pledge then thats unconstitutional. I think it should solely be voluntary.
    Alright, just a sec, I think I see a breakthrough coming along here. Here is the quote from the Constituiton again, "no law respecting an establishment of religion" with "respecting" being the key here. So the Constitution isn't just covering religion, but anything respecting (with regards to) religion. The phrase "under God" is certainly covered by the "respecting" part.

    "Also I agree with you to about the founding fathers." Wow, we actually agree on something! Now, obviously, I'm going to try to sway you to the opinion that the pledge is not. As a country we strived to be the best nation in the world. From independence, the drafting of the Constitution, through the Civil War and two world wars, we had no "under God" in our pledge. The pledge came about in 1896 (I believe) by who? Brace yourself, you stanch conservative American: A Christian Socialist. I'm surprised that alone hasn't led to you ditching the pledge without a second thought. The pledge really isn't patriotic when you think about it, it just conforms to whatever you want the flag to mean, even if it is unconstitutional. If we had to choose something to pledge allegiance to I could think of nothing better than the Constitution. Unlike the flag, what it stands for is concrete, written right on it. The flag is much too vague. I mean, it is a flag after all. I just feel that the pledge is an easy way out for being patriotic, akin to slapping an American flag bumper sticker on your car. All that means nothing if you don't know what the basic principles of this country are and too many Americans are lazy enoguh to be content with doing as little as possible to show how very "patriotic" they are. It's hard to be patriotic when you don't even know why.

    If you still want the pledge, you shouldn't be sad. You will be free to recite it anytime you wish with whatever wording you choose whether it is found unconstitutional or not. "But on the other hand IMO I think if gov enforces and makes us recite the pledge then thats unconstitutional. I think it should solely be voluntary." Yet another thing we agree on. I'm stunned.

  5. #445
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The law, which I previously posted a reference to, is very specific that no person can be required to recite the pledge. In other words there is no reward and no consequence for reciting or not reciting the pledge.

    The phrase 'under God' is a nonstarter for me. I like it, but I don't need it. My whole agenda here is that in all issues that have no consequence, the will of the people should prevail and a small angry minority should not be allowed to impose their will on the majority. For decades now, the minority has been successful in using the courts to erode little freedoms enjoyed by the minority--you can't have a manger scene in the city park at Christmas, the highschool choir has to discontinue presenting Handel's Messiah in the Christmas concert, a county can't have a small cross, symbolic of the founding Catholic friars, on its 100-year-old county seal, a predominantly Jewish school can't hang a framed copy of the Ten Commandments in the hall, etc. etc. etc. That's just the religious stuff. We won't even get into the rights of property owners that are also being eroded in the interest of the "public good."

    At some point we all have to say enough is enough and demand that the community reclaim its right to be who or what it is so long as indiividual rights are not jeopardized. If we keep caving in, then pretty soon a small organized bunch of angry, narrow minded, activists will have complete control and will run the whole show. I think that is never what the Constitution intended. And so, I fight for the majority will to prevail where the Pledge is concerned.
    I totally agree. Also remember that the liberty Bell has a line from the Bible that is endented on it. So what are we going to do? Destroy the liberty bell? I think majority should always prevail. For that is a true democracy. Yes minorities are to be heard but thats all. No one is or should rule on a minority. Remember, they are a minority for a reason.

  6. #446
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The law, which I previously posted a reference to, is very specific that no person can be required to recite the pledge. In other words there is no reward and no consequence for reciting or not reciting the pledge.

    The phrase 'under God' is a nonstarter for me. I like it, but I don't need it. My whole agenda here is that in all issues that have no consequence, the will of the people should prevail and a small angry minority should not be allowed to impose their will on the majority. For decades now, the minority has been successful in using the courts to erode little freedoms enjoyed by the minority--you can't have a manger scene in the city park at Christmas, the highschool choir has to discontinue presenting Handel's Messiah in the Christmas concert, a county can't have a small cross, symbolic of the founding Catholic friars, on its 100-year-old county seal, a predominantly Jewish school can't hang a framed copy of the Ten Commandments in the hall, etc. etc. etc. That's just the religious stuff. We won't even get into the rights of property owners that are also being eroded in the interest of the "public good."

    At some point we all have to say enough is enough and demand that the community reclaim its right to be who or what it is so long as indiividual rights are not jeopardized. If we keep caving in, then pretty soon a small organized bunch of angry, narrow minded, activists will have complete control and will run the whole show. I think that is never what the Constitution intended. And so, I fight for the majority will to prevail where the Pledge is concerned.
    I don't know how many times I have to say it:there IS a consequence for our government to let God/religion in. The pledge may not be a big deal for you, but for those who wish to turn this country into an officialy Christian one it gives them the means to get a foothold in our government. 1st, establish an official acknowledgement God. 2nd, define who that God is (hint: not yours, theirs). 3rd, because God is the "True Christian God"TM, we must obey Him. Unconstitutional? No worry, we'll just tear that up and use the Bible. I think we all know how well THAT has worked.

  7. #447
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I totally agree. Also remember that the liberty Bell has a line from the Bible that is endented on it. So what are we going to do? Destroy the liberty bell? I think majority should always prevail. For that is a true democracy. Yes minorities are to be heard but thats all. No one is or should rule on a minority. Remember, they are a minority for a reason.
    You are joking, right? Remember, this is not a democracy, but it IS a democratic republic. The Liberty Bell is historical and I have not heard one person advocate removing it. Let's stick with real issues, please.

  8. #448
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,116

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    I don't know how many times I have to say it:there IS a consequence for our government to let God/religion in. The pledge may not be a big deal for you, but for those who wish to turn this country into an officialy Christian one it gives them the means to get a foothold in our government. 1st, establish an official acknowledgement God. 2nd, define who that God is (hint: not yours, theirs). 3rd, because God is the "True Christian God"TM, we must obey Him. Unconstitutional? No worry, we'll just tear that up and use the Bible. I think we all know how well THAT has worked.
    This country has managed quite nicely with steady improvements with no noticable or mass conversions of athiests into holy rollers before the concept of erasing any reference of religious belief or history from public view caught on just a couple of decades ago. In a very few instances in which nonbelievers were illegally assaulted or harrassed, the law acted swiftly and effectively to protect the nonbeliever's right to be a nonbeliever.

    At such time as the government attempts to define who or what God is in any specific terms; at such time as the government attaches 'Christian' or any other specific religious belief to the Pledge (or anywhere else) for public consumption, then I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with you to protest that.

    They aren't doing that in this case. "Under God" in the Pledge is not specified as any particular god, any particular faith, or any particular belief, and is not a requirement for anybody to say. I don't understand how anybody thinks tolerance can be tolerance when it is only granted in one direction. If the Christians or any other people of faith tolerate the athiests and impose no penalty or prejudice on them for their athiesm, that is tolerance. It is not too much to ask of the athiests that they also be tolerant of people of faith.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #449
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Alright, just a sec, I think I see a breakthrough coming along here. Here is the quote from the Constituiton again, "no law respecting an establishment of religion" with "respecting" being the key here. So the Constitution isn't just covering religion, but anything respecting (with regards to) religion. The phrase "under God" is certainly covered by the "respecting" part.
    I understand but it is just giving respect to the establishment of a religion meaning the place of worship. You do know what an establishment is right? Its a place. Well a place(establishment) of a religion is the place in which they gather and worship. So its in respect to those places(establishments) of worship. Again its just referring to religions not anything else.

    From independence, the drafting of the Constitution, through the Civil War and two world wars, we had no "under God" in our pledge.
    No but we had Godand prayer, mind you, in our schools. So gotcha there.



    Wow, we actually agree on something! Now, obviously, I'm going to try to sway you to the opinion that the pledge is not.
    Of course I knew this.

    I just feel that the pledge is an easy way out for being patriotic, akin to slapping an American flag bumper sticker on your car. All that means nothing if you don't know what the basic principles of this country are and too many Americans are lazy enoguh to be content with doing as little as possible to show how very "patriotic" they are. It's hard to be patriotic when you don't even know why.
    I feel the same way. Why dont you all get out on the battlefield and see how patriotic you get? True patriots fight for their rights and secure them. Look, you cant tell me or preach to me about patriotism for I say it like Patrick Henry does. Yes, I would die before I get enslaved by any regime. I think debating on what we look at while we recite the pledge is meaningless. I could say it looking at a dumpster for all I care. The words mean the same regardless. Saying the pledge infront of a constitution isnt nothing different IMO.

    ." Yet another thing we agree on. I'm stunned.
    Well I dont know why for I posted this same info on like 2weeks ago.

  10. #450
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    You are joking, right? Remember, this is not a democracy, but it IS a democratic republic. The Liberty Bell is historical and I have not heard one person advocate removing it. Let's stick with real issues, please.
    Yes the issue is not letting religion/God in the gov. Well if I am not mistaken the liberty bell is a trademark of this country and it has incribed on it a passage form the Word of God. So I think this has everything to do with the same topic. So you agree we should destroy the bell?

    And this is a democracy. Once we got the electoral college it soley became a democracy. Majority rules period! It is like that in congress, in the senate, and in the coutrooms. Where have you been?

Page 45 of 107 FirstFirst ... 3543444546475595 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •