View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
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    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #421
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Thank you. It all comes down to this. Does it really hurt you that bad? If it does you people need to grow some balls and have them drop. Because this whining is getting retarded. Again if they dont enforce it then they really didnt endorse it. Thats what it comes down to. Sure they physically endorsed it in the beginning but if they dont even inforce what they endorse then its meaningless if you ask me. So whats the big deal then? If its not a big deal to government then why is it a big deal to you?
    When people use the pledge/10 commandments/etc to push a pro-theocratic agenda it is a big deal. And you still don't know the difference between "endorse" and "enforce". I don't see how we can continue this discussion when you refuse (or are just incapable) to understand the words being used (I'm not being sarcastic).

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    When people use the pledge/10 commandments/etc to push a pro-theocratic agenda it is a big deal. And you still don't know the difference between "endorse" and "enforce". I don't see how we can continue this discussion when you refuse (or are just incapable) to understand the words being used (I'm not being sarcastic).
    How many time do I have to tell you that I am very aware of what th difference of both of the words mean but what you fail to understand is that which I just told you. Please understand common sense. Likewise I cant continue a debate with a person who doesnt understand common sense. The phrase will not hurt you or I in anyway therefor its not unconstitutional and it doesnt breech any bill of rights or ammendment. Becasue they physically endorsed it in the beginiing doesnt matter if they dont enforce it. You still fail to realize this.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Of course I wouldnt. I would just say it "under God". I have every right to say the pledge how I please. I have the freedom of speech. So your dam right I have no problem.
    That's fine and dandy, but it would be unconstitutional, just as it is to have "under God" in the pledge. This isn't about what you feel or believe to be constitutional, but what is constitutional or not. When we look at optional school led prayer it was found unconstitutional for having government approval (public schools). Being forced to say prayer or not, that was not the case. Similarly today, it is not about whether people are forced to say the pledge, but the government showing preference towards religion. That is unconstitutional and should not be allowed. This should have been taken care of long ago or better yet, not added in the first place.

  4. #424
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    How many time do I have to tell you that I am very aware of what th difference of both of the words mean but what you fail to understand is that which I just told you. Please understand common sense. Likewise I cant continue a debate with a person who doesnt understand common sense. The phrase will not hurt you or I in anyway therefor its not unconstitutional and it doesnt breech any bill of rights or ammendment. Becasue they physically endorsed it in the beginiing doesnt matter if they dont enforce it. You still fail to realize this.
    Look, you have not demonstrated the ability to differentiate between the two which you clearly show here, "Again if they dont enforce it then they really didnt endorse it.". Clear as can be (except to you). I have already argued with much detail that their enforcement isn't what makes it (un)constitutional. You are arguing a moot point and that is what I've realized, but do you?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    That's fine and dandy, but it would be unconstitutional, just as it is to have "under God" in the pledge. This isn't about what you feel or believe to be constitutional, but what is constitutional or not. When we look at optional school led prayer it was found unconstitutional for having government approval (public schools). Being forced to say prayer or not, that was not the case. Similarly today, it is not about whether people are forced to say the pledge, but the government showing preference towards religion. That is unconstitutional and should not be allowed. This should have been taken care of long ago or better yet, not added in the first place.
    IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH ENFORCEMENT. I dont even think its constitutional to make people pray in a church let alone at school. But in school if I wanted to pray I could. They couldnt tell me no. I have the right to. Just like vice versa. If schoool led prayer they had the opportunity to pray to whatever they beleived. They still had their freedoms. Just like here. You still have your freedom to say what you want therefor it is constitutional. What does the constitution say about the prohibits on religion? Please show me where word for word that it says people must say the pledge word for word in unicen on a daily basis and if this isnt abided then we will prosecute them?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH ENFORCEMENT. I dont even think its constitutional to make people pray in a church let alone at school. But in school if I wanted to pray I could. They couldnt tell me no. I have the right to. Just like vice versa. If schoool led prayer they had the opportunity to pray to whatever they beleived. They still had their freedoms. Just like here. You still have your freedom to say what you want therefor it is constitutional. What does the constitution say about the prohibits on religion? Please show me where word for word that it says people must say the pledge word for word in unicen on a daily basis and if this isnt abided then we will prosecute them?
    Umm, but school led prayer was found unconstitutional, which means the pledge...

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    Umm, but school led prayer was found unconstitutional, which means the pledge...
    I know and they are wrong. Because you still had the freedon to do what you wanted. There was no breech in the ammendments.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    I know and they are wrong. Because you still had the freedon to do what you wanted. There was no breech in the ammendments.
    Well, I guess you would know, being an expert on constitutional law. Government endorsement...err prerefence of religion is unconstitutional. Wow, we do in fact have separation of church and state after all! I know this shocks you, but this is what has made the US a bastion of religious thought (and nonreligious thought). Read the Constitution and think about why the framers purposely left out God and made a point to exclude religion from government.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    Well, I guess you would know, being an expert on constitutional law. Government endorsement...err prerefence of religion is unconstitutional. Wow, we do in fact have separation of church and state after all! I know this shocks you, but this is what has made the US a bastion of religious thought (and nonreligious thought). Read the Constitution and think about why the framers purposely left out God and made a point to exclude religion from government.
    The phrase under god has nothing to do with our gov. Its just a phrase like in any other sentnece. Except this one is a pledge to our country. Well hate to break it to ya but separation betweencurch and state never happened. For it is what our whole law system and judicial system is made up of. Our courts all have the 10commandments present. Also guess what book we all put our hands on to tell the truth under oath? Yep you guessed right, a religious book. Known as the Bible. Yeah your right religion is separated from state. How genious of a fellow you must be.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    The phrase under god has nothing to do with our gov. Its just a phrase like in any other sentnece. Except this one is a pledge to our country. Well hate to break it to ya but separation betweencurch and state never happened. For it is what our whole law system and judicial system is made up of. Our courts all have the 10commandments present. Also guess what book we all put our hands on to tell the truth under oath? Yep you guessed right, a religious book. Known as the Bible. Yeah your right religion is separated from state. How genious of a fellow you must be.
    It's not just any phrase, it was singed into law. Separation never happened? Gee , that explains why all our laws are based on the Bible and why there is a religious test for public office. Not all courts have 10 commandments in them due having to take them down because of preference of religion being shown by the government. Which just so happens to be unconstitutional. You see, I don't just have the Constitution on my side (which alone is all I really need to disprove your claim), but also precedent. The official oath one must swear on does NOT include putting your hand on the Bible, that was something extra that was added. Presidents have done so before their term, but added "so help me God" themselves which they are free to do. Let's look at the exact wording, "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Hmm..."so help me God" seems to be something added on and not endorsed by our government. In the courts they shouldn't require you to put your hand on the Bible, but do anyway. All that proves is that people in this country have tried to get around what our Constitution says and have had some success. If you actually think this country was founded on the Bible, then it is obvious you haven't read it. The NT emphasizes obedience to authority. That includes slaves being obedient to their masters, women to men, and nations to kings. Look at the colonies and you will see why the framers kept religion out. They didn't want people being executed for denying the Trinity, cursing, blasphemy, etc. They wanted people to have freedom of conscience, speech, etc. None of which had ever before been attained in
    the all the 1700+ years of Christendom. They weren't about to make the same mistake that had been made over and over by including God in government. Our Constitution is godless and there is nothing you can say to make it otherwise. Separation of church and state is a founding principle and intrinsically American, even moreso than apple pie (which I've just had a fair share of).

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