View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #401
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    joke Re: There's TWO Reasons The Pledging Should Cease

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Long ago, the court rightfully ruled that the recitation of the Pledge not be mandatory nor are alternate patriotic exercises prohibited for any who would choose to use them. The Pledge is a symbol, a tradition, an emblem if you will not unlike that of the flag and the corresponding rules for saluting, displaying, etc. There is no consequence imposed by law for anybody's failure to do either or for disrespecting either.

    Thus, as the phrase 'under God' implies nothing other than the cultural and historical roots of the founding of the nation, and there is no reward or consequence for saying or not saying the phrase, there is no establishment of religion.

    That is the root of this entire argument. Is any reference to religion an establishment of religion. I say it is not, and to forbid any reference to religion would be a violation of the First Amendment. The only way that government would be guilty of an establishment of religion is if any particular religion was favored (rewarded) over any other, if any particular religion was forbidden or afforded disadvantage for its beliefs.

    There is nothing implied nor stated in the Constitution suggesting that religion would not be permitted within public view, on public lands, or even in government activity.

    Welcome to DebatePolitics by the way. And you post a link by copying it from the website and pasting it into the buffer as you compose your post.
    The First Amendment - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there of yu need to look at some of the decisions of the Supreme court. They have interpreted and extended this to mean that people have no right to force their religious beliefs on others. Freedom of religion now also means freedom from religion. Individual choice. Sometimes Christians seem to try to rewrite history to support their own believes. Yet so do others besides Christians.
    Personally I am do not think, that,, In God We Trust on money,, or Under God in the pledge of allegiance do not as one to believe anything. I am not offended by it at all.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    The First Amendment - Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there of yu need to look at some of the decisions of the Supreme court. They have interpreted and extended this to mean that people have no right to force their religious beliefs on others. Freedom of religion now also means freedom from religion. Individual choice. Sometimes Christians seem to try to rewrite history to support their own believes. Yet so do others besides Christians.
    Personally I am do not think, that,, In God We Trust on money,, or Under God in the pledge of allegiance do not as one to believe anything. I am not offended by it at all.
    Please read post 318 this should give you some insight.

    That and the fact that the pledge as well has been found to be unconstitutional as well. But, so far, AlbqOwl hasn't responded to the points made in the Ninth Circuit Judge's opinion that I so generously supplied for this thread and his/her rebuttal.
    Again please read post 381

    Public view, sure. Any land except for government-related. Boy, are you off on the last one. Guess that's why religion was kept out of what we base our laws on (the Constitution). To what level is it OK in government activity? I say none and let's keep our government impartial. Some conservative Christians are simply not going to stop at the pledge/10 commandments/etc. Like a certain senator who, during the rash of government endorsement of religion in the 50s, introduced a constitutional amendment that stated "This nation devoutly recognizes the authority and law of Jesus Christ, Saviour and Ruler of nations,through whom are bestowed the blessings of Almighty God." We can clearly see that if you give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile. You'd say I should wait for something like that to pass and then take action against it, but then the Constitution would have already been null and void. Is the severity of this getting through to you? Can you see why separation of church and state is so important? You still haven't bothered to show how optional school led prayer was found unconstitutional, but the pledge is OK. If government endorsment was found unconstitutional in the prayer issue, then why isn't it applicable to the official pledge? Not only that, but the point of the pledge was to unify and since that is its aim the pre-"under God" phrase version already accomplished that. Therefore, "under God" is rendered unnecessary.
    Please read post 381

    The Constitution does state that the government cannot be religious. Reread the Establishment Clause, you obviously do not have an understanding of it, if you are even aware of it at all. You are trying use it to your liking when the actual meaning of it is very clear and not consistent with your ideas. You can twist and turn the meanings of this clause as you wish, but the truth remains the same.
    Again I will tel you the same as everyone else. go read post 381

    I again thank you for your arguments in regards to this matter but when it comes down to it post 381 sums it all up for you kind people. You have been well heard and pondered but it comes down to post 381. I hope you finally understand the facts at hand and the simplicity of it.

  3. #403
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again please read this post one more time. Maybe you didnt get it the forst time. This should be the end of this argument.
    It's unconstitutional, sorry. Government can't and shouldn't endorse religion. Thank you, come again.

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    Re: There's TWO Reasons The Pledging Should Cease

    [QUOTE=AlbqOwlThus, as the phrase 'under God' implies nothing other than the cultural and historical roots of the founding of the nation, and there is no reward or consequence for saying or not saying the phrase, there is no establishment of religion.

    That is the root of this entire argument. Is any reference to religion an establishment of religion. I say it is not, and to forbid any reference to religion would be a violation of the First Amendment. The only way that government would be guilty of an establishment of religion is if any particular religion was favored (rewarded) over any other, if any particular religion was forbidden or afforded disadvantage for its beliefs.[/QUOTE]

    Forget the historical cultural claptrap, a pledge is made to what is, not to what was. This is not a "nation under God". Not one thing has this nation ever accomplished been done to deliberately glorify God. Every goal, every act, has been the result of human greed or human need.

    If, as has been said, the words "under God" have no current religious significance, then they're not needed. Since they weren't in the original poem, what's the point in having them there? Since the intruding words were added after 1945, couldn't the words "under the Bomb" been apropos?

    How about this version:

    I pledge allegiance to the flag
    of the United States of America
    and the Republic for which it stands,
    One nation, self-reliant,
    with liberty and justice for all.

    That "self-reliant" part certainly captures the true spirit of our American heritage. It wasn't God that did anything to build this country, it was men working hard for themselves. Men plowed the fields. Men cut the trees. Men built the ships, the railroads, and the factories. Men invented the telegraph, the telephone, and the digital watch. Men whipped the slaves to get the cotton picked, and men killed the Indians. What did God do?

    On the Establishment thingy. Atheism is not a religion. However, to say the pledge correctly, that is, to follow the wording according the law, the atheist is required to be false to his beliefs. Congress has written a law that establishes recognition of a deity as a pre-condition for allegience.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    It's unconstitutional, sorry. Government can't and shouldn't endorse religion. Thank you, come again.

    Again you are freaking getting annoying casue gov isnt endorsing it. If they dont make you recite it then gov isnt endorsing it how many times do I have to explain this to you nimrods!!!

    Again read post 381.

    Until gov makes you recite it word for word the its not gov endorsed. Let me ask you how is it gov endorsed if they dont even make you recite it? Your right they dont make you recoite it therefore it isnt endorsed. Get a freking clue dude. You are getting seriously really annoying becasue you arent making an ounce of sense. Even if the school has pledge of allegance time I am sure if there is a student who refuses to say the under god part the gov isnt going to storm into the school and arrest everyone who didnt say it properly. If they are please tell me casue I will be the first to say its unconstitutional.

  6. #406
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again you are freaking getting annoying casue gov isnt endorsing it. If they dont make you recite it then gov isnt endorsing it how many times do I have to explain this to you nimrods!!!

    Again read post 381.

    Until gov makes you recite it word for word the its not gov endorsed. Let me ask you how is it gov endorsed if they dont even make you recite it? Your right they dont make you recoite it therefore it isnt endorsed. Get a freking clue dude. You are getting seriously really annoying becasue you arent making an ounce of sense. Even if the school has pledge of allegance time I am sure if there is a student who refuses to say the under god part the gov isnt going to storm into the school and arrest everyone who didnt say it properly. If they are please tell me casue I will be the first to say its unconstitutional.
    Congress signing the bill to add the phrase "under God" to the pledge into law is a " law respecting an establishment of religion". This is what you are not getting. Government endorsing religion is unconstitutional and whether they make you say the pledge or not doesn't matter in the end. If they do, then it becomes blatantly unconstitutional as opposed to being unconstitutional. The government can endorse religion without making you do anything and still endorse religion. I am making plenty of sense, you just need to sharpen your ability to reason.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    Congress signing the bill to add the phrase "under God" to the pledge into law is a " law respecting an establishment of religion". This is what you are not getting. Government endorsing religion is unconstitutional and whether they make you say the pledge or not doesn't matter in the end. If they do, then it becomes blatantly unconstitutional as opposed to being unconstitutional. The government can endorse religion without making you do anything and still endorse religion. I am making plenty of sense, you just need to sharpen your ability to reason.

    Again its NOT ENFORCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

    Therefor its NOT ENDORSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

    Get the picture?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Again its NOT ENFORCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

    Therefor its NOT ENDORSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

    Get the picture?
    Jesus H. Christ. I can't believe I have to resort to this, (English is your 1st language, correct?) but here is the definition of "endorse" as it is on dictionary.com .

    en·dorse Audio pronunciation of "endorse" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-dôrs) also in·dorse (n-)
    tr.v. en·dorsed, en·dors·ing, en·dors·es

    1. To write one's signature on the back of (a check, for example) as evidence of the legal transfer of its ownership, especially in return for the cash or credit indicated on its face.
    2. To place (one's signature), as on a contract, to indicate approval of its contents or terms.
    3. To acknowledge (receipt of payment) by signing a bill, draft, or other instrument.
    4. To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement; sanction: endorse a political candidate.

    (italics mine)

    Where does it say anything about forcing someone else to do something? Now keep in mind that to endorse something does not mean to enforce it. If I wanted to say "enforce" I would, but that word doesn't mean endorse, nor is it a synonym. Read my last post again with this in mind and things will all click together. The learning process is never over.

  9. #409
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Again you are completely off. I know what endorsing and enforcing means. However, if congress endorsed originally the phrase in the pledge and they dont enforce it then they really didnt endorse it now did they? Besides the pledge itself wasnt even endorsed let alone have it be enforced. Its just like the congress endorsed the 10commandments to be present in courtrooms. Are ou going to whine about that too becasue they are there but ypu also have the right to look away. Just like you do here you have the right to not say the phrase which mkes it very constitutional. However, when they make you say the phrase then thats when it gets unconstitutional. Please understand simple things

  10. #410
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride
    The 9th circuit court in San Francisco is the most activisr appeals court in this country...About 40% of their rulings are overturned by the SCOTUS.......So will this one...........Take it to the bank.......
    Just wondering why you've completely ignored my request for you to prove that the statement you made in this post is not complete and utter bull****?

    I clearly requested that you prove that 40% of their rulings have been overturned and that it is the "most activist appeals court in the country."

    You posted this untruth multiple times in this thread yet you never respond when your untruths are exposed. How come?

    Anyone can lie or twist facts to make their point. It's oh so interesting when someone posts lies and then when asked to prove that he is not lying he just ignores the challenge.

    Pretty lame, you know?

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