View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
Page 35 of 107 FirstFirst ... 2533343536374585 ... LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 1064

Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #341
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,131

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Actually on the contrary my fun loving friend, I just said its not unconstitutional for anything that is not made to do or say by the gov. If gov doesnt make you or enforce you to say the pleadge then its not unconstitutional. Now once they make you recite it and if you dont do so they punish you then I can see it being unconstitutional. Cause I beleive that no one should make you say or do anything. Thats totalitarianistic. And thats wrong.
    Yes, this is the heart of it. It is not required. Now admittedly, if the Pledge said 'under no god', I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't say it, but, if that is what the majority wanted, I would just shut up and wait until it was over. In matters that do not violate anybody's rights, the majority preference should prevail.

    But some wish for it not to be allowed. They even go so far as to say the "Christians" are trying for force their religion down the throats of the nonbelievers. But in fact, they are trying to force their nonbelief down the throats of the believers even though the nonbelievers are in the minority. It would be disruptive to the recitation to add words that are not included. It is in no way disruptive to just not say any 'offensive' words or just not to say the Pledge at all when it is recited. There is a degree of tolerance and courtesy at stake here.

    PROPOSITION: Who should decide what lifestyle, culture, or practices shall be the identity of the community? Does the Constitution suggest that the people will decide that or does the government dictate that? Should the lifestyle, culture, traditions that people enjoy be decided by some activist judge with his own ax to grind? It's fine if he thnks like you do. It is not so fine if he does not.

    It is no contest when Constitutional rights are at stake. The majority must not be allowed to override the rights of the few or even the one.

    The one rule that we should all agree on, however, is that if nobody's rights are at risk, the community should decide. And as it is likely that not all will agree, that decision should be by majority decision. There is no other fair way to decide such things.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 09-21-05 at 08:08 AM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #342
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    No no no, the separation between church and state was only implemented to prevent instances in the early european times when the catholic religion ruled the law which didnt work very well by the way. It was also implemented for the reason of prohibiting reformations. They saw it that in order for society and for the gov body to work properly over long periods of time they needed to separate the conglomerates of church and state so to say. In other words they needed to be seperated in the form that no one could have say over the other.

    That had nothing to do with the state endorsing prayer. Which is also not any of the talking points. It is the fact whether or not the church can tell you whether you can pray at school or not which in all factness it cant tell you whether you can or not you have the freedom to do which ever you choose much like in the case of the pledge you have the freedom to recite it or not.

    If you are aware of what happened when church and state mix then I don't see how you can be for a pledge which states we are under the authority of the Christian God. Separation wasn't just for the younger years of our nation, but for all. Our Constitution makes it very clear that our government is based on reason, not faith, and we are all better for it. The similarity between government endorsed prayer is there because in both cases what is unconstitutional is the government endorsing religion when it shouldn't and whether you have the option to opt out is moot as the state is still endorsing religion. If you want to make the pledge religious or atheistic then go ahead, but that's not what the government should be doing. The pledge should be neutral in the matter (like our government), especially when the point of it is to unify which is done perfectly well without the "under God" part. What is the problem with having the citizens add to their pledge? There is no reason people should be mad we're reverting it back to the original to represent all Americans as it should.

  3. #343
    Pundit-licious
    shuamort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Last Seen
    02-26-09 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,297

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The one rule that we should all agree on, however, is that if nobody's rights are at risk, the community should decide. And as it is likely that not all will agree, that decision should be by majority decision. There is no other fair way to decide such things.
    And since you haven't read the opinion by the judge, I'll need you to stop yammering on because those things were addressed in there.

    Moreover, the country was specifically set up so majority does not rule. The US has never been a democracy and never should be.

  4. #344
    Major General Big Lug
    cnredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Philadelphia,PA
    Last Seen
    09-22-16 @ 11:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    8,678

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by shuamort
    Moreover, the country was specifically set up so majority does not rule. The US has never been a democracy and never should be.
    Does the majority agree with this?...cheesy smile....

  5. #345
    Educator Columbusite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus
    Last Seen
    01-04-07 @ 10:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    808

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Yes, this is the heart of it. It is not required. Now admittedly, if the Pledge said 'under no god', I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't say it, but, if that is what the majority wanted, I would just shut up and wait until it was over. In matters that do not violate anybody's rights, the majority preference should prevail.

    But some wish for it not to be allowed. They even go so far as to say the "Christians" are trying for force their religion down the throats of the nonbelievers. But in fact, they are trying to force their nonbelief down the throats of the believers even though the nonbelievers are in the minority. It would be disruptive to the recitation to add words that are not included. It is in no way disruptive to just not say any 'offensive' words or just not to say the Pledge at all when it is recited. There is a degree of tolerance and courtesy at stake here.

    PROPOSITION: Who should decide what lifestyle, culture, or practices shall be the identity of the community? Does the Constitution suggest that the people will decide that or does the government dictate that? Should the lifestyle, culture, traditions that people enjoy be decided by some activist judge with his own ax to grind? It's fine if he thnks like you do. It is not so fine if he does not.

    It is no contest when Constitutional rights are at stake. The majority must not be allowed to override the rights of the few or even the one.

    The one rule that we should all agree on, however, is that if nobody's rights are at risk, the community should decide. And as it is likely that not all will agree, that decision should be by majority decision. There is no other fair way to decide such things.
    This quote is very telling,"Now admittedly, if the Pledge said 'under no god', I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't say it, but, if that is what the majority wanted, I would just shut up and wait until it was over." Like I already said before (I'm not going to let this convenient case of amnesia go by) whether it is the state endorsing religion or atheism both cases are unconstitutional. Be honest, you know very well that if the pledge did somehow have "under no God" added that it would be struck down. The government is not to bow to the will of the majority just because they are the majority. They must do what is right even if it doesn't have much support. What is constitutional isn't up for vote and for good reason. Taking out "under God" in no way forces non-belief. Like the current pledge which clearly favors monotheistic religion you would need a phrase like "without God"/"under no God"added in order for the state to be endorsing atheism. Otherwise it is simply neutral and citizens can make it have prefernce for religion or no religion on their own. The people shall (ideally) decide lifestyle, culture, and practices so long as they are constitutional. That is the one big caveat.

  6. #346
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,131

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    This quote is very telling,"Now admittedly, if the Pledge said 'under no god', I wouldn't like it and I wouldn't say it, but, if that is what the majority wanted, I would just shut up and wait until it was over." Like I already said before (I'm not going to let this convenient case of amnesia go by) whether it is the state endorsing religion or atheism both cases are unconstitutional. Be honest, you know very well that if the pledge did somehow have "under no God" added that it would be struck down. The government is not to bow to the will of the majority just because they are the majority. They must do what is right even if it doesn't have much support. What is constitutional isn't up for vote and for good reason. Taking out "under God" in no way forces non-belief. Like the current pledge which clearly favors monotheistic religion you would need a phrase like "without God"/"under no God"added in order for the state to be endorsing atheism. Otherwise it is simply neutral and citizens can make it have prefernce for religion or no religion on their own. The people shall (ideally) decide lifestyle, culture, and practices so long as they are constitutional. That is the one big caveat.
    Perhaps you have a better plan then? Who should decide what the people's lifestyle, culture, or practices shall be when nobody's rights are at stake? Should you have that responsibility? Should I? Do you want to trust it to a judge to decide? Or even the legislature? How about the president whomever he or she shall be?

    Don't you see that the ONLY way a democratic people decide these things is by majority will. The Constitution profoundly protects us from a tyranny of the majority or a minority. But a majority vote is the only reasonable way to decide whether green or blue wallpaper is going to be put up or any other matter that hinges purely on preference.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #347
    Pundit-licious
    shuamort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Last Seen
    02-26-09 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,297

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Perhaps you have a better plan then? Who should decide what the people's lifestyle, culture, or practices shall be when nobody's rights are at stake? Should you have that responsibility? Should I? Do you want to trust it to a judge to decide? Or even the legislature? How about the president whomever he or she shall be?

    Don't you see that the ONLY way a democratic people decide these things is by majority will. The Constitution profoundly protects us from a tyranny of the majority or a minority. But a majority vote is the only reasonable way to decide whether green or blue wallpaper is going to be put up or any other matter that hinges purely on preference.
    And since this subject goes deeper than preference, Constitutional law triumphs. As the old saying goes, "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner." And we're fortunate to not live in one of those.

  8. #348
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,131

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    That's where we disagree. The subject goes no deeper than preference because it affects absolutely nothing or nobody other than a few sensibilities. And none of us have a constitutional right to be comfortable in our sensibilities.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #349
    Pundit-licious
    shuamort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Last Seen
    02-26-09 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,297

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    That's where we disagree. The subject goes no deeper than preference because it affects absolutely nothing or nobody other than a few sensibilities. And none of us have a constitutional right to be comfortable in our sensibilities.
    So, you're saying it's just about the verbiage and that should be of no concern to those whom it offends?

  10. #350
    Banned kal-el's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    08-25-10 @ 09:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,412

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I don't believe that the government should forcibly spoonfeed anyone into saying anything. We must respect everybody's different views. Even though I don't believe in a mythological "God", I do repect people that do. It is their wish to do so. Prayer means more IMO, when done in private.

Page 35 of 107 FirstFirst ... 2533343536374585 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •