View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #331
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Actually I think it was post #38. But there, Alex, you just stated in a different way that the Pledge is unconstitutional without explaining HOW. That's something all you anti-Pledge-as-it-is people keep doing--you restate, repeat, reword, reemphasize that it is not constitutional but you can provide no law, no statute, not even a logical reason for why it is not. Not one of you has been able to state a single instance of how you are personally or materially injured, compromised, coerced, persuaded, or threatened by those two little words 'under God'. Not one of you can provide a single definition of what those two words mean that is not purely speculation on your part.

    The words are not an establishment of religion. They are cultural, historical, traditional or any of a dozen other adjectives, but they are not required of any citizen nor is there any reward or punishment for saying or not saying them.

    The words are not unconstitutional.
    Once again, I have provided what you asked for and you chose to ignore it. You discredit yourself with every post.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Once again, I have provided what you asked for and you chose to ignore it. You discredit yourself with every post.
    Actually I think this phrase is what I call a vice versa phrase.

  3. #333
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    This has nothing to do with a pledge that isnt made to be recited. I am sorry but its not unconstitutional if its not made to be recited. All of you who oppose this is wrong. If it werent dont you think it wouldve changed already? But no tonly 4 schools arent made to say under god.
    Irrational post. Where do the conditions state that?
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Something interesting to note that I wasn't aware of: school led prayer was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court despite it being optional. So the whole "you have the choice not to say it" argument must be given up.
    http://fray.slate.msn.com/id/2067499/

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Something interesting to note that I wasn't aware of: school led prayer was found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court despite it being optional. So the whole "you have the choice not to say it" argument must be given up.

    Bologna. Talk to people who attended school in those day in ages and they will tell you they were made to pray. I know all of my grandparents were. I dont know about yours but mine was subject to pray. The only choice they had was that they could pray to whatever god they chose as far as religion goes. But they had to pray in the time of prayer. That argument is hogwash.

    Try getting facts from people who have been there in those times instead of reading some athiest column

  6. #336
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Bologna. Talk to people who attended school in those day in ages and they will tell you they were made to pray. I know all of my grandparents were. I dont know about yours but mine was subject to pray. The only choice they had was that they could pray to whatever god they chose as far as religion goes. But they had to pray in the time of prayer. That argument is hogwash.

    Try getting facts from people who have been there in those times instead of reading some athiest column
    I disagree, sorry.

    Here's a very simple example of why religion is not part of our government. Ready? There is not ONE MENTION of God in the Constitution, not a one.

    If our founding fathers had wanted God mentioned in our public areas that are supported by taxpayer dollars they would have mentioned God at least once.

    It's amazing to me that all of the bible thumpers out there want to shove God down people's throats and think they're right, amazing!
    Last edited by 26 X World Champs; 09-20-05 at 09:38 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 26 X World Champs
    I disagree, sorry.

    Here's a very simple example of why religion is not part of our government. Ready? There is not ONE MENTION of God in the Constitution, not a one.

    If our founding fathers had wanted God mentioned in our public areas that are supported by taxpayer dollars they would have mentioned God at least once.

    It's amazing to me that all of the bible thumpers out there want to shove God down people's throats and think they're right, amazing!
    There are a million things that we take for granted as lawful, our right, our privilege that are not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.

    The fact is, however, that very credible studies have indicated that 90 percent or better of all Americans do believe in some sort of diety.

    It does the people who believe in a god no harm whatsoever if the phrase 'under God' is removed from the Pledge or remains. They have no constitutional right for it to be there.

    It does the people who do not believe in a god no harm whatsoever if the phrase 'under God' is removed from the Pledge or remains. They have no constitutional right to demand that it be removed.

    Because the phrase harms no one, affords no advantage or disadvantage to anybody, the only reasonable way to decide the issue is via majority vote. In this case, the majority happens to want the phrase 'under God' to be there.

    At suchtime as the majority wants it removed, it will be removed.

    Why should the godless have more authority to say there shall be no such phrase as the believers have to say that they want it?

    It is the only way to handle issues like this don't you think?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I disagree, sorry.

    Here's a very simple example of why religion is not part of our government. Ready? There is not ONE MENTION of God in the Constitution, not a one.

    If our founding fathers had wanted God mentioned in our public areas that are supported by taxpayer dollars they would have mentioned God at least once.

    It's amazing to me that all of the bible thumpers out there want to shove God down people's throats and think they're right, amazing!
    Actually on the contrary my fun loving friend, I just said its not unconstitutional for anything that is not made to do or say by the gov. If gov doesnt make you or enforce you to say the pleadge then its not unconstitutional. Now once they make you recite it and if you dont do so they punish you then I can see it being unconstitutional. Cause I beleive that no one should make you say or do anything. Thats totalitarianistic. And thats wrong.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Bologna. Talk to people who attended school in those day in ages and they will tell you they were made to pray. I know all of my grandparents were. I dont know about yours but mine was subject to pray. The only choice they had was that they could pray to whatever god they chose as far as religion goes. But they had to pray in the time of prayer. That argument is hogwash.

    Try getting facts from people who have been there in those times instead of reading some athiest column
    I see what you're saying, but whether it was really optional or not (officially it was, although when it was made optional I don't know, and I'd guess before it was going to be found unconstitutional as an attempt to keep it going on in school) is not the main issue. Even if all schools actually did allow you to sit silent while prayers went on, that would still be unconstitutional. We are talking about the government endorsing religion. That was the constitutional problem with school led prayer in, but now instead of a school prayer we are talking about the phrase added to the pledge.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    I see what you're saying, but whether it was really optional or not (officially it was, although when it was made optional I don't know, and I'd guess before it was going to be found unconstitutional as an attempt to keep it going on in school) is not the main issue. Even if all schools actually did allow you to sit silent while prayers went on, that would still be unconstitutional. We are talking about the government endorsing religion. That was the constitutional problem with school led prayer in, but now instead of a school prayer we are talking about the phrase added to the pledge.
    No no no, the separation between church and state was only implemented to prevent instances in the early european times when the catholic religion ruled the law which didnt work very well by the way. It was also implemented for the reason of prohibiting reformations. They saw it that in order for society and for the gov body to work properly over long periods of time they needed to separate the conglomerates of church and state so to say. In other words they needed to be seperated in the form that no one could have say over the other.

    That had nothing to do with the state endorsing prayer. Which is also not any of the talking points. It is the fact whether or not the church can tell you whether you can pray at school or not which in all factness it cant tell you whether you can or not you have the freedom to do which ever you choose much like in the case of the pledge you have the freedom to recite it or not.

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