View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Voters
236. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    133 56.36%
  • No

    103 43.64%
Page 30 of 107 FirstFirst ... 2028293031324080 ... LastLast
Results 291 to 300 of 1064

Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #291
    Sage
    Stinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    The South
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    14,120

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Clearly? Show me where it says that. Show me where it even implies that. Show me where the word 'god' is used by only Christians and Jews. (In fact Jews don't ever say the word "God" directly prefering G-d or YHWH.)
    So let's see on the one hand you want to argue that since we were founded on Christian principles the under God should be there and then you want to argue on the other hand that God doesn't mean God it means Budda.

    Your arguement is to phoney to take seriously.

    Further there is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits religion.
    In the private sector no, and I defend your right to worship the religion of your choice and in the church of your choice and government can't interfer. But then regilion and faith has no place in government nor it is required to be a citizen and to take part as as citizen.

    It is definitely in the Consitution that religion may not be prohibited.
    No one has said otherwise why do you harp on the point?

    What religion or requirement is being established by the phrase 'under God'?
    It is codified into law respecting God, capital "G" clearly the Christian God else it would say Budda or Allah or Mohammed or and of the hundreds of other dieties.

    But your Clintonian "It depends on the meaning of God" is silly at best when you read the historical perspective the reason you on your side give otherwise as to why the phrase should be there.

    There is no meaning of God specified so it has nothing to do with the meaning of anybody's God.

    But the fact remains that NO God or other religious supernatual being should be part of our national pledge which is for ALL of us not just SOME of us.

    God seems to be the most practical word to use as culturally, that is the one most Americans are familiar with.
    Oh I see the principle of " we win because there is more of us than you" which is preicisely what the establishment protects the country from.
    .

    There is no requirement in the Pledge that you believe that.
    So the pledge should be something only the Christian part of the country believes in and that suits you just fine. Goes right along with the indivisable part.

    And again I ask, why is it necessary to be in there. Seems to me if you want it in there the burden is on YOU to show why.

    There are those who are just as militant about anti-Americanism who things we should not have to say any form of pledge to our country. And they are not required to do so.
    That's fine for those who are anti-American, what about those of us who seem to be more pro-American than you and want ALL people to fully participate and have every right to be as much a patriot as you. The pro-America stance is that this country is for everyone and we should all stand a receit a pledge that includes everyone, while you insist it be for Christians and the rest be damned. Why do you inisit on alienating people over your religious beliefs?

  2. #292
    Sage
    Stinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    The South
    Last Seen
    04-27-16 @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    14,120

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    If almost 400yrs of not having these problems and all the sudden when we remove god out of schools is when we have these problems and you have the adacity to ask me is there any sort of correlation? I REALLY DONT KNOW HOW TO DEFINE CORRELATION ANY BETTER TO YOU PEOPLE. Theres no correlation? Really? 400yrs isnt correlation? Thats a funny remark
    So in other words the churches can't do the job? Because kids no longer say a meaningless 10 second prayer in schools society has fallen apart? Doesn't speak highly of the organized religions in this country does it.

    By the way, computers also came about during this time period, any correlation?

    I think you'd find more cause and effect in the break down of the family and that's not relagate to atheist, there are just as many believers of the faith in broken families and prisons.

  3. #293
    Pundit-licious
    shuamort's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saint Paul, MN
    Last Seen
    02-26-09 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,297

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    CALIFORNIA EDUCATION CODE

    52720. In every public elementary school each day during the school year at the beginning of the first regularly scheduled class or activity period at which the majority of the pupils of the school normally begin the schoolday, there shall be conducted appropriate patriotic exercises. The giving of the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America shall satisfy the requirements of this section. In every public secondary school there shall be conducted daily appropriate patriotic exercises. The giving of the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America shall satisfy such requirement. Such patriotic exercises for secondary schools shall be conducted in accordance with the regulations which shall be adopted by the governing board of the district maintaining the secondary school.

  4. #294
    Guru
    Alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    06-21-16 @ 12:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,962

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The majority will should prevail when individual liberties are not at stake however, and the phrase 'under God' interferes with nobody's individual liberties.
    I cannot believe I just read this. It doesn't interfer with an Atheist's liberties?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    It isn't, nor did I say anything like that. Show me where the Constitution says there shall be separation of church and state.
    "Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

    "...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

    Show where in The Constitution it says the government can endorse religion.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  5. #295
    Guru
    Alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    06-21-16 @ 12:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,962

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    The Pledge says a generic "under God" as symbolic of the nation's heritage, the Declaration of Independence, acknowledgement that the Preamble of EVERY state constitution (except I think Oregon or Washington) makes reference to God or a Creator, in respect for the 90+ percent of Americans who do believe in some form of higher power, and in recognition of the nation's culture. The Pledge does not state who God is, what God is, or how God is to be seen or understood, and there is no implication that God is to be worshipped.

    The phrase takes nothing away from you or anybody else, it has failed to corrupt or harm anybody in its 50+ years of existence, and it is important to a large majority of Americans. Get over it.
    The declaration of independence is just that-- a declaration. It is not law and was not intended to be.

    The Constitution has a Supremacy Clause. That means that the national Constitution is above all of the state's Constitutions.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  6. #296
    Guru
    Alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    06-21-16 @ 12:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,962

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride
    As I already said it does not matter what the people say that want God out of everything in this country.......The 9th circuit court is a radical court filled with activist jusdges whose decisions are constantly overturned by the SCOTUS and that is what will happen in this case........

    You can take it to the bank.....
    The Supreme Court had to dismiss this case the first time on a technicality. This is not good news for people who want "under god" in the pledge. The most powerful court in the country used a technicality to get away from what would have been an unpopular ruling.
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  7. #297
    Guru
    Alex's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    06-21-16 @ 12:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,962

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Not a Democrat
    July 4, 1821 - John Quincy Adams:

    "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration ... they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct."

    1833 - Noah Webster:

    "The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles ... This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government ... the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws."

    1841 - Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

    "In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious ... there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."

    Summer 8, 1845 - President Andrew Jackson asserts:

    "The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests."

    February 11, 1861 - Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

    "Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail ... Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now."

    Lincoln on the Bible:

    "In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it." (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

    1884 - U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration's reference to our rights as being God-given.

    These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, "we hold these truths to be self-evident" that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement "that all men are endowed" - not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but "by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these" - not grant them but secure them "governments are instituted among men."

    1891 - The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a "Christian Nation."

    "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian ... this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ... we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth ... this is a Christian nation." (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

    1909 - President Theodore Roosevelt:

    "After a week on perplexing problems ... it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty' ... (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world." (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt - The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

    1913 - President Woodrow Wilson:

    "America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures."

    1952 - US Supreme Court defines the "Separation of Church and State."

    "We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being ... No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects ... The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State."

    January 20, 1977 - President Jimmy Carter:

    "Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: 'He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God'" (Micah 6:2).

    1980 - President Ronald Reagan:

    "The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America ... our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal."

    May 3, 1990 - President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

    "The great faith that led our Nation's Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our 'firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,' to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator."
    This only proves that the country was founded by some Christians, not that it was founded as a Christian nation. The Tripoli Treaty of 1797, Article 11 begins with, ďAs the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion." This counters all your quotes. Which one is valid?
    "Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." -Ronald Reagan

  8. #298
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger
    So in other words the churches can't do the job? Because kids no longer say a meaningless 10 second prayer in schools society has fallen apart? Doesn't speak highly of the organized religions in this country does it.

    By the way, computers also came about during this time period, any correlation?

    I think you'd find more cause and effect in the break down of the family and that's not relagate to atheist, there are just as many believers of the faith in broken families and prisons.
    I am not suprised becasue kids attend school day in and day out for 5 days a week for at least 5hours a day and only attend church once a week. Gee, it doest take a genious to figure out which one will over weigh the other. Of course the church cant do a adequate job and it never was meant to becasue in the history of school it was always intertwined with religion until recently.

  9. #299
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,116

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger
    So let's see on the one hand you want to argue that since we were founded on Christian principles the under God should be there and then you want to argue on the other hand that God doesn't mean God it means Budda.
    I don't recall ever arguing on any hand, in this thread or anywhere else, that we were founded on Christian principles. Perhaps you could show me where I did? I have said that the "God" in the phrase "under God" does not specify what, which, or whose God it is.

    Your arguement is to phoney to take seriously.
    Could I interest you in debate techniques sans ad hominems? And perhaps a brush up course in spelling?

    In the private sector no, and I defend your right to worship the religion of your choice and in the church of your choice and government can't interfer. But then regilion and faith has no place in government nor it is required to be a citizen and to take part as as citizen.
    You are quite correct that no citizen is required to adhere to or profess any religious conviction or belief of any type. The Constitution in fact gives us very specific protection related to that. You are quite incorrect that religion and faith has no place in government as testified by the Federalist papers and other supporting documents for the Constitution as well as testified by every state constitution as I posted two or three pages back.


    It is codified into law respecting God, capital "G" clearly the Christian God else it would say Budda or Allah or Mohammed or and of the hundreds of other dieties.

    But your Clintonian "It depends on the meaning of God" is silly at best when you read the historical perspective the reason you on your side give otherwise as to why the phrase should be there.
    There is no meaning of God specified so it has nothing to do with the meaning of anybody's God.[/QUOTE]

    When the meaning of God is not specified, it cannot be assumed what meaning is intended. You actually contradicted your own argument, but in the end you got it right. Very good.

    But the fact remains that NO God or other religious supernatual being should be part of our national pledge which is for ALL of us not just SOME of us.
    Yes, and since the national pledge is for ALL of us, it should not be the prerogative of a small minority to dictate what the content of it should be for everybody.

    Oh I see the principle of " we win because there is more of us than you" which is preicisely what the establishment protects the country from.
    The principle at play here is that when nobody's rights are being violated and no Constitutional principle is in play, the preference of the community should prevail. In this particular case the entire nation is the 'community'. And the only reasonable way for the community to prevail is for the majority to decide it.

    So the pledge should be something only the Christian part of the country believes in and that suits you just fine. Goes right along with the indivisable part.
    Christians are certainly not the only Americans who believe in a diety. But 90 percent of Americans do believe in a diety.

    And again I ask, why is it necessary to be in there. Seems to me if you want it in there the burden is on YOU to show why.
    I never said that it is necessary for it to be in there. Nor is it necessary that it be removed. When a majority of Americans want it removed, it will be done. Until that time, as nobody's rights are being violated, a majority of Americans prefer the phrase and should prevail in that preference.


    That's fine for those who are anti-American, what about those of us who seem to be more pro-American than you and want ALL people to fully participate and have every right to be as much a patriot as you. The pro-America stance is that this country is for everyone and we should all stand a receit a pledge that includes everyone, while you insist it be for Christians and the rest be damned. Why do you inisit on alienating people over your religious beliefs?
    Perhaps you are more pro-American than I am. You certainly have not demonstrated that thus far. You seem to think the minority should prevail in a matter of community preference when no inalienable or legal rights are involved. I think the majority should prevail. So yes, the Pledge is for everybody and not just the Christians or other religious groups, and the pledge is for everybody, not just the athiests or anti-religious people.

    And you don't have a clue what my religious beliefs are in this matter.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #300
    Banned SKILMATIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Last Seen
    04-03-06 @ 10:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,407

    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Let me just say this to everyone who thinks this pledge is unconstitutional.

    Are you made to say this pledge at all in your life? If you dont say this pledge is your arms twisted, do people throw in jail, do people burn you at the steak, is your family targeted, are you boycotted? I think its suffice to say this argument is done.

    I dont think that saying the pledge even if your made to and substitute that phrase with whatever you want would be so wrong. Get over this argument. Its simply rediculous.

    However, let me know when you get thrown in jail for not saying "under god". I will be the first to say your innocent.

Page 30 of 107 FirstFirst ... 2028293031324080 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •