View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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  • Yes

    133 56.36%
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    103 43.64%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #231
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    Sorry Gentlemen. The whole intent of the First Amendment was to prevent the Federal government from restricting religious freedom or imposing any requirement for a specific religion on anybody. The Constitution further specifies that this protection extends to those elected to government, hired by government, and appointed by government as well. That protection extends to a Pledge of Allegiance that is said the way most Americans wish to say it and the law does not require anyone to say it who does not wish to say it. It is not a requirement of citizenship nor eligibility for elected office or to be hired or to be appointed to government positions.

    It is not an establishment of religion, and therefore it is not unconstitutional.
    You didn't read my post and you don't comprehend a very important part of the 1st amendment; "Congress shalll make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That is more than just preventing the establishment of religion like I said earlier. Yes, freedom of religion applies to all citizens including those in government. I see no one arguing that point. That extends to the pledge in that anyone can midify as they wish, however the government has no business backing religion or non-religion. If you want to make it specifically religious add "under God/Allah/Ahura Mazda/etc". If you want to make it specifically irreligious add "without God/etc". This is the way it should be with citizens making the option of making the pledge religious/irreligious. No one is prevented from saying it the way they want and the government is not siding with either in this case. I don't see how you can argue with that. Yes the law doesn't require people to say the pledge, but the pledge in it's current state says we are "under God" and has no right to do so. It was added with the purpose of saying that we are under the Christian God (although a generic "God" isn't more permissible either). It only makes sense that we get a secular government from a secular Constitution.

  2. #232
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Until you can make a reasoned argument that the undescribed and undefined phrase 'under God' is an establishment of religion, person preferences or personal interpretations count for naught. If you think it is religious, the next person may think it is historical, the next cultural, the next symbolic, the next respecting of heritage. What the phrase means to me is no doubt entirely different than imagery the phrase conjures up in you.

    The phrase is not unconstitutional because it is not an establishment of religion. And the Constitution in no way suggests that there shall not be any religious references attached to or associated with government. It's just that government can neither require, forbid, reward, or punish you according to what you believe respective of religion.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 09-18-05 at 12:42 AM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #233
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?
    No, because it just wouldn't sound right if it were "Under Mohammad, under Confucious, under Scientology, under Agnostic (Athiest), under Budda, under Pagganism, etc...

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_B...ts.html#primal

    Just wouldn't fit!
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  4. #234
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    That protection extends to a Pledge of Allegiance that is said the way most Americans wish to say it and the law does not require anyone to say it who does not wish to say it. It is not a requirement of citizenship nor eligibility for elected office or to be hired or to be appointed to government positions.

    It is not an establishment of religion, and therefore it is not unconstitutional.
    The reality is that YOU are wrong, it is, according to the law of the land, ILLEGAL to use the words "Under God" in the Pleadge and will be so from now on.

    Allow me to repeat this key fact? "Under God" is NOT permitted in the Pledge, period, no exceptions unless you want to say those words yourself, that is always allowed.

    It is ILLEGAL for our government to bring God into anything they do on an official basis. That does not mean that anyone, if politicians are prohibited from mentioning God one zillion times in public or private.

    I say "get over it" if you want to say "Under God" do so! Just leave it out of the official government version.

    This is not about the Pledge, it is about the intrusion of our government into religion which is ILLEGAL. Very simple indeed.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    It isn't illegal because YOU say it is illegal. It is illegal only if the law says it is illegal, and in my opinion, any law that says it is illegal is in itself unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment.

    This argument has become too circular to be productive to continue. So until someone offers a fresh perspective, I will retire for now.

    Thank you all my esteemed opponents on this issue--at least most of you--for an intelligent and worthy debate and for your courtesy.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #236
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    As I already said it does not matter what the people say that want God out of everything in this country.......The 9th circuit court is a radical court filled with activist jusdges whose decisions are constantly overturned by the SCOTUS and that is what will happen in this case........

    You can take it to the bank.....
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #237
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride
    As I already said it does not matter what the people say that want God out of everything in this country.......The 9th circuit court is a radical court filled with activist jusdges whose decisions are constantly overturned by the SCOTUS and that is what will happen in this case........

    You can take it to the bank.....
    We can only hope. It makes it all the more critical that the President appoint strict Constitutional constructionists--such as Judge Roberts appears to be--to the high court and we can hope that so will the next President. That will ensure that our most cherished protections and freedoms will not be taken away by activist judges with their own agendas.

    As I said earlier, lose a little freedom here....a minor freedom there...no real big deal. But add them all up and before long you realize you have lost something huge. It's time to take a stand for those of us who do not wish our freedoms undermined by small minorities with an agenda aided and abetted by activist judges who make law instead of interpret it.

    If we want 'under God' in the Pledge, it hurts no one, it does not violate the Constitution, and it should stand. At such time as a majority does not want the phrase, then it should go. Again it would hurt no one and would not violate the Constitution.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  8. #238
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    It isn't illegal because YOU say it is illegal. It is illegal only if the law says it is illegal, and in my opinion, any law that says it is illegal is in itself unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment.
    It IS the 1st Amendment that dictates the Government not imposing religion on anybody. And you obviously missed what was in the post above yours. YOU are not restricted in your speech. YOU are free to include it all you want. But the Government can't impose any form of religion on anybody.

    YOU are free to say "Under God" all you want. You just can't make anybody else say it.

    So the very premise of your claim is incorrect, your 1st Amendment rights clearly remain intact.

  9. #239
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl
    If we want 'under God' in the Pledge, it hurts no one,
    Your claim is false. It hurts those who do not have any belief in God, and whom you are inflicting Religion throiugh Government order. You are hurting those who do not believe as you do. Yes, fundies have tried to get around the Establishment Clause for generations, but it still is the infliction of Government religion, something clearly illegal. Fundies don't LIKE the US Constitution because it gives freedom to those who don't believe as they do. Well, that's just to bad, that the fundies don't get to push their illegal theocracy on everybody else.

    it does not violate the Constitution,
    It violates the establishment clause.
    and it should stand.
    Though it imposes religion on those who don;t want it, in strict violation of the US Constitution? Why do you hate the Constitution so much?
    At such time as a majority does not want the phrase, then it should go.
    Ah, so you believe the majority should always be right, and the entire Bill of Rights should be abolished? It is OK for the majority to impose on the minority, even at the expense of their Civil Rights? Somehow you seem to be in disagreement with what we have decided American Values to be. Hmm....
    Again it would hurt no one and would not violate the Constitution.
    Both claims are false.

  10. #240
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by SKILMATIC
    Its like when a athiest sees a church. Is the athiest going to get all hissy fitted casue he sees a church and becasue he sees one it offends him? No that would be rediculous. And if that was the case we would have to do away with all churches and other religious things. The point is its rediculous to say that.
    Well it is rediculous because it is a completely bogus statement. Those who do not believe in Chrisitanity are certainly trying to get churches torn down and not has a "hissy fit" as you so childishly put it. It has nothing to do with you PRIVATE worship in your church or home or other private property. It has to do with our NATION our collective NATION whcih ALL of us are citizens of and not just YOU. But again it is telling that your side has to so completely misrepersent the other side when you know full well it has nothing to do with your private worship.

    And its the same instance on the pledge.
    No it is not it is completely different, you can't make the intellicual distinctintion between the private religious and the public gatherings where YOU want YOUR religious practices injected?

    No one makes you say the pledge
    Fine then let's take out the references to faith and then you don't have to say it anymore. Or let's change it to Allah and you don't have to say it anymore.

    Why do YOU insist of making the pledge, as codified under law, devisive when it clearly states we should be indivisable.

    Tell me why you insist on the under God phrase even being in there.

    nor does anyone make you watch a cross or look at a church.
    Which has nothing to do with the issue.

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