View Poll Results: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

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    133 56.36%
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Thread: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

  1. #1011
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by LogicalReason
    31 actually but continue
    The 'under God' was added to the pledge in 1954, and the Newdow case was filed early this decade. That's about fifty years. Was there a case before Newdows?
    Do not write in this space!

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    Why is this so hard to understand? Why can't we have religion symbols and artifacts as simply religious and cultural things? Why does it have to be like some, "inquisition" thing of doom?
    You can have all the religion symbols and aritifacts that you want provided they are not employed by the government to assume authority over the duty that the people owe to their Creator. It was a sinful rejection of Christ's authority over his religion for Congress to make a law respecting the establishment of the people's duty to trust in God by authorizing the placement of the motto "In God We Trust" on the nation's coins. There was no legal precedent for the use of legislative authority for that sort of action.

    FVF

  3. #1013
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    I think both did their fair share of persecuting the Jews. I don't know who'd "win" though, the Catholics or the Protestants? Tough call. Oh, I think you meant Martin Luther?

    Yes, sorry. lol



    That was tongue in cheek, it sounded plausible is all. Please don't confuse communist and Atheist as the two have basically nothing in common. I agree that communist art is lacking since it all has to be,...what is it called, socialist realism. The "pinnacle" of art, ha! Atheism sets no boundries for art, but I don't know how many artists openly say they are when it comes to art so that we could compare. I know Sweden has a lot of Atheists, maybe you could take a look at what they've come up with over there, although there is so much more to it than that. Back in the day in parts of Europe (maybe all) only realistic looking religious paintings were allowed if I recall, so it was well after that that we got some variety.
    Atheism was a part of communism. It was a component of communism, so how can you say it has nothing to do with atheism? Not all atheists are communists, granted. But atheism still has something to do with communism, nonetheless.

    Sweden, yes, has some very nice art. I like Sweden as a country. I don't think though that their art is related to their agnosticism or atheism in any way. I don't think they're all mostly atheists per se but more agnostics. I knew a student from Sweden. He wasn't extremely religious but he told me that he did believe in God. He said people in Sweden did attend mass during Christmas time and other holidays.



    If more people lived in cities there'd be more liberals and we'd be dealing with more important things. Eh? How'd you like how I did that? Not too shabby.
    I like city living but I don't think it would neccessarily turn people into liberals. I'm conservative but I would say that I'm also a city boy. Take New York for example. There are many Republicans in manhattan who aren't extremely liberal, especially the business community. Many members of New York's financial communities support the arts because they buy art a lot. Art can be a good investment and if you have the money, it's a fun thing to decorate your house or apartment with artistic things like paintings, sculptures, etc. I think you can fully appreciate art and cultural and still be conservative. Also, don't forget that many of our great artists in the past have been theistic. It is one of the most ignorant things in the world to say that creative = liberal political views. It just isn't the case. One's political views can be totally separate from his or her profession, whether it be in the arts or any other field. It's essentially viscious descrimination against religious people.
    Last edited by George_Washington; 04-23-06 at 11:30 AM.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    The Laws Of The Early Republic Required Violation Of The Ten Commandments

    The Federal Government, from its initial establishment in 1788, pursued a system of causing the mail to be transported on the Sabbath. This was a blatant violation of the Commandment to remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. Is it also proof that the founders were infidels and heathens who disowned God?

    (Source of Information: American State Papers, 13th Congress, 3rd Session, Post Office Department, Volume 1, Page 17, Senate Report No. 30 on Sunday Mails, Communicated to the Senate, January 27, 1815 by Mr. Daggett.)

    http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage...7.db&recNum=52

  5. #1015
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    I like city living but I don't think it would neccessarily turn people into liberals. I'm conservative but I would say that I'm also a city boy. Take New York for example. There are many Republicans in manhattan who aren't extremely liberal, especially the business community. Many members of New York's financial communities support the arts because they buy art a lot. Art can be a good investment and if you have the money, it's a fun thing to decorate your house or apartment with artistic things like paintings, sculptures, etc. I think you can fully appreciate art and cultural and still be conservative. Also, don't forget that many of our great artists in the past have been theistic. It is one of the most ignorant things in the world to say that creative = liberal political views. It just isn't the case. One's political views can be totally separate from his or her profession, whether it be in the arts or any other field. It's essentially viscious descrimination against religious people.
    I don't believe I said good artists couldn't be theistic. Anyway, look at an election map of counties and you'll see that urban areas are overwhelmingly more democrat and more liberal than rural and suburban areas with the glaring exception of numerous college towns. I really do think that if we didn't have such a suburban culture this country would be more liberal. It's much harder to isolate yourself and not have your views challenged when you live and, most importantly, interact with lots of different kinds of people. There's more to it than that, but suffice to say that cities/urban areas are the most liberal areas in most cases in this country.
    "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
    - Thomas Paine


    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    - Thomas Jefferson


    "Ours is the first government made by the people and for the people. It is the only nation with which the gods have had nothing to do."
    - Robert G. Ingersoll

  6. #1016
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by George_Washington
    Atheism was a part of communism. It was a component of communism, so how can you say it has nothing to do with atheism? Not all atheists are communists, granted. But atheism still has something to do with communism, nonetheless.
    Bull ****. Communists breathe oxygen, too, so clearly everyone that breathes oxygen has something to do with communism.

    Don't agree? Then don't make stupid uncorrelated connections.

    Atheism is merely sensible. There's no god to see, thus there's no point in pretending their is one. Anyone that feels otherwise is confusing wishful thinking for reality.

  7. #1017
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Bull ****. Communists breathe oxygen, too, so clearly everyone that breathes oxygen has something to do with communism.
    Don't agree? Then don't make stupid uncorrelated connections.
    Atheism is merely sensible. There's no god to see, thus there's no point in pretending their is one. Anyone that feels otherwise is confusing wishful thinking for reality.
    Well, I think that it was more of the communist choice to choose atheism because it best suited their needs. Therefore, atheism helps communists, but doesn't cause them. Not as though communism is a bad thing, Just the dictatorships that claimed to be them.
    Looking for a paradigm shift?

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    If the First U. S. Congress wanted to prohibit the central government from establishing a religion, why did it establish two of them in 1789 by electing Chaplains and paying them from the national taxes?

  9. #1019
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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Columbusite
    I don't believe I said good artists couldn't be theistic. Anyway, look at an election map of counties and you'll see that urban areas are overwhelmingly more democrat and more liberal than rural and suburban areas with the glaring exception of numerous college towns. I really do think that if we didn't have such a suburban culture this country would be more liberal. It's much harder to isolate yourself and not have your views challenged when you live and, most importantly, interact with lots of different kinds of people. There's more to it than that, but suffice to say that cities/urban areas are the most liberal areas in most cases in this country.
    It's not really as black and white as you think. Conservatives aren't just cowboys riding horses in vacant farming fields. There are many people who live in cities that are conservative. For example, the upper east and west sides of Manhattan are mostly Republican, actually. Steve Forbes is an example of an urban guy who is conservative on religious issues and has always lived an urban life. It depends on what you mean by, "urban". If you mean the ghettos and slums, yes, most of them vote Democratic. And yes, your average struggling person in manhattan would lean towards voting Democratic because they tend to view that party as being more for the little guy, even though this isn't true a lot of the time. But there are plenty of people in cities that vote Republican just because of various reasons. Bill O'Reilly and Donald Trump are also people that have come from urban backgrounds that vote Republican.

    Anyway, back to the issue at hand-Living an urban life doesn't mean that you would suddenly become anti-religious or liberal. Some of the most beautiful Churches have been built in urban areas. There are more religious elements in Rome, for example, than there are in rural areas of Italy. It seems like you mean to imply that conservatives aren't as, "cultural" as liberals and that just isn't the case.
    Last edited by George_Washington; 04-23-06 at 08:38 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe that the phrase "Under God" should be in the Pledge of Allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar
    Bull ****. Communists breathe oxygen, too, so clearly everyone that breathes oxygen has something to do with communism.

    Don't agree? Then don't make stupid uncorrelated connections.
    Atheism and irradication of religion was mentioned in Karl Marx's writings on Marxism, which was the basis for modern communism. Atheism is mentioned in his writings as being one of the key basics of marxism, therefore, it is related to communism.

    If I write a book on jet engines, advocate a certain kind of design, and include fiber optics in that design, than fiber optics is clearly a component of my jet engine. As an engineer, I would think you would be able to understand this concept but if you want to choose to deny the obvious, that's ok, I don't care.

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