View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #51
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You act as if the psychological community's word is law. Their theories on the matter of transexuals is merely a load of sophistry and a violation of parsimony. Some things don't require overly complex explainations for it to make sense and this is one of them. They are simply quite disturbed and there is no reason to believe otherwise.

    I also find it quite ironic that people will use the psychological community's previous perspective on homosexuality as an example of traditionalist misclassifications but will turn right around and champion their current opinion on transexuals. So basically, the psychological community has been known to make mistakes but when they agree with me then they must be right.

    Moreover, I consider psychology on the whole a loose field of study. It's a transient discipline that merely reflects the perceptions of contemporary society. I do not feel psychology is a truly valid classification system.
    As research becomes more sophisticated and techniques more advanced, we add information that was not previously known. Consider what we know today because of technology and research as opposed to what we knew 100 years ago. Your position is a reactionary position that refuses to take current information and research into account. You are correct. Sometimes the simple solution is the correct one. This is not, however, one of those times. There is nothing that your position offers in the way of research or information that disputes the alternative.

    And we certainly differ on the validity on the study of human behavior.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Again, the direction in which you place the disorder is very important. Depending on which direction it is placed, that determines how the disorder should be resolved.

    A man who wants to be a woman, who feels like a woman, who thinks he's a woman. How do you resolve this problem? Do you convince the man that he's a man, or do you allow him to be who he wants to be? Which resolution will be most positive? The one in which will make the man happier, or the one which will make the man hate himself even more?

    The disorder is not that the man is confused that he isn't a man. The disorder is that the person is a woman trapped in a man's body. Again, the direction in which you place the disorder is very important.
    This is on target, and similar to how I described the situation. Look at the questions that I suggested be asked. These are key in determining whether the person is a transsexual, or whether there is some sort of mental illness occurring.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    This is how I view it. Even given that the transexual's mental disturbance isn't the fact that they have the wrong sex organs in that they are correct in feeling their body doesn't match their identity, this still has to cause other complications. I can't believe that not being in the right body doesn't cause some other pathologies to form because the mental stress and anguish has to be insurmountable. Captain even referred to "stress" being alleviated by addressing the issue.

    So, in effect, though the transexualism might not be the mental defect, I still believe that it is almost guaranteed that there will be some mental defect as a result of the transexualism.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So if Bill thinks he is also Jim,James, and Bob then we should give Bob birth certificates and I.D.s for Jim,James and Bob as a quick fix to make him feel better instead of actually having some real therapy(which might take longer) that could cure him of his mental disorder?
    I don't think your comparing apples to apples. If you want to start a multiple personality disorder thread I'll be happy to participate.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    This is how I view it. Even given that the transexual's mental disturbance isn't the fact that they have the wrong sex organs in that they are correct in feeling their body doesn't match their identity, this still has to cause other complications. I can't believe that not being in the right body doesn't cause some other pathologies to form because the mental stress and anguish has to be insurmountable. Captain even referred to "stress" being alleviated by addressing the issue.

    So, in effect, though the transexualism might not be the mental defect, I still believe that it is almost guaranteed that there will be some mental defect as a result of the transexualism.
    I've addressed that issue here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057773585-post10.html

    Nobody's denying that being in a body of the wrong sex causes stress and mental anguish, and that the stress leads to maladjustment, poor social functioning, and random acting-out in many aspects of life beyond just the sexual.
    Do you remember the Teena Brandon case (there was a book and a movie based on it)?
    Teena was hardly a model citizen, even aside from her gender confusion- she was involved in petty theft, hot check cashing, she was basically a transient and a couch-surfer.
    That's probably not at all atypical for transexual youths.
    But all of that might've been alleviated by the sex reassignment surgery that she was hoping to get, having already lived as a male for a number of years before her death.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    I've addressed that issue here:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057773585-post10.html

    Nobody's denying that being in a body of the wrong sex causes stress and mental anguish, and that the stress leads to maladjustment, poor social functioning, and random acting-out in many aspects of life beyond just the sexual.
    Do you remember the Teena Brandon case (there was a book and a movie based on it)?
    Teena was hardly a model citizen, even aside from her gender confusion- she was involved in petty theft, hot check cashing, she was basically a transient and a couch-surfer.
    That's probably not at all atypical for transexual youths.
    But all of that might've been alleviated by the sex reassignment surgery that she was hoping to get, having already lived as a male for a number of years before her death.
    That's all well and good, but it does nothing to address the fact that this maladjustment is present and may very well be ingrained in such a way that without serious counseling the transexual can reasonably be barred from holding certain jobs or responsibilities, one of those being working with children.

    In fact, I'd venture that its almost guaranteed that counseling is needed to rectify the situation and bring the transexual back to a functional point in his/her mental stability.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    This is how I view it. Even given that the transexual's mental disturbance isn't the fact that they have the wrong sex organs in that they are correct in feeling their body doesn't match their identity, this still has to cause other complications. I can't believe that not being in the right body doesn't cause some other pathologies to form because the mental stress and anguish has to be insurmountable. Captain even referred to "stress" being alleviated by addressing the issue.

    So, in effect, though the transexualism might not be the mental defect, I still believe that it is almost guaranteed that there will be some mental defect as a result of the transexualism.
    I would say this is a pretty good assessment. Certain pathologies can certainly be caused by the gender displacement issue. Traumas can create psychological illnesses that may not have a direct relationship to the trauma. If someone is raped or sexually abused, depression could result. Acting out behaviors, such as oppositional behavior, sociopathy, substance absue could, also occur. As could panic disorder. One reason that a full psychological evaluation is important when sex reassignment is considered, is to tease out what has been caused by the transsexualism and what predates it or, is incongruent with it. I have debated the homosexuality issue, in this vein, many times here. It is similar. If someone is abused, and "turns" gay, one must evaluate to determine whether their sexuality is a symptom of a psychological disorder, or if their true sexuality had just been repressed. This is how to approach transsexualism in order to make an accurate determination. Looking at the distress and the alleviation of such gives us important information in coming to conclusions.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    This is how I view it. Even given that the transexual's mental disturbance isn't the fact that they have the wrong sex organs in that they are correct in feeling their body doesn't match their identity, this still has to cause other complications. I can't believe that not being in the right body doesn't cause some other pathologies to form because the mental stress and anguish has to be insurmountable. Captain even referred to "stress" being alleviated by addressing the issue.

    So, in effect, though the transexualism might not be the mental defect, I still believe that it is almost guaranteed that there will be some mental defect as a result of the transexualism.
    While I agree with the entirety of your post, I'm going to add that no human being alive is without defect. Mental or physical.

    The degree of stress, and therefore the degree of "mental defect" (as you put it), is what we should be concerned with. If the stress isn't debilitating, then I don't think it matters. Just the same that most people's stress aren't debilitating, which also shouldn't matter. Different people handle stress in different ways. Different transsexuals handle their problem in different ways as well, it's not always surgery.

    So if the stress is addressed and minimized, I don't think there is a significant problem.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's all well and good, but it does nothing to address the fact that this maladjustment is present and may very well be ingrained in such a way that without serious counseling the transexual can reasonably be barred from holding certain jobs or responsibilities, one of those being working with children.

    In fact, I'd venture that its almost guaranteed that counseling is needed to rectify the situation and bring the transexual back to a functional point in his/her mental stability.
    I agree, and submit that because of the pressures of dealing with this situation, counseling will be needed after sex reassignment is completed, even if the psychological issues that pertained to the gender displacement are relieved from the reassignment. A whole new set of problems can develop, unrelated to gender, but more related to adjustment.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's all well and good, but it does nothing to address the fact that this maladjustment is present and may very well be ingrained in such a way that without serious counseling the transexual can reasonably be barred from holding certain jobs or responsibilities, one of those being working with children.
    I'm wondering about this "not safe to work around children" thing. Where does this come from? What is it feared that will happen?

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