View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #501
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.
    I also agree that more research is needed. However, if the delusion exists, then the diagnosis is NOT GID.
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  2. #502
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Is there a way to test the brain chemistry other than through autopsy. If so--THAT should be a criteria for SRT.
    Not that I am aware.

    I read something that suggested BIID was very like Phantom Limb, but only in reverse. That would be the same sort of brain chemistry issue that you are citing as why GID should be surgically treated.
    I have heard of this. I believe that this is what transabled is talking about in regards to skin conductivity.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #503
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    It may be that it is a delusion, a symptom of another disorder. But there are already measures that take that into account (DSM-V should have definitely improved in this area). The extensive counseling and the doctors' consent, and all of what everybody who knew a transsexual has said in this thread. The process is a tiresome one, and an exhaustive one.
    I think your use of language here is a little deceiving. It is not the job of psychiatry to determine an objective reality, and then "fix" those who do not not conform to it; rather, those who perceive reality in such a way that it is hindering their functionality in society may seek treatment. On a more complex level, you could also say that society has such a level of conformity that it is the rest of us who fail this minority, as opposed to accusing the minority of being delusional. That is to say, just like many societies have integrated many cultural, gender, and sexual identities into one place peacefully, perhaps it could also be useful to integrate the disabled and those who perceived reality differently as well. Disorders are generally diagnosed when a person cannot function in their community; perhaps the community is equally responsible for this lack of functionality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    These measures should give us a good picture of what reality is and what identity is for the transsexual, even though it may not always be correct 100% of the time.
    How do you create a picture of what reality is? What is reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    But the fact that there's been such a high degree of success with SRT points towards the idea that identity is not dictated by the body. When you put all of this together, it suggests that the high majority of the cases dealing with GID are cases concerning Identity, not delusions.
    This is what I was pointing to earlier. Identity is not necessarily determined by the body, however if the body does not conform with the needs of the mind then there may be a serious psychological disharmony.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    I don't have a clue, not to sound mean or anything I really really don't care.
    I see far to many more important problems facing my country.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Then why post at all?

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I think your use of language here is a little deceiving. It is not the job of psychiatry to determine an objective reality, and then "fix" those who do not not conform to it;
    This isn't what I said at all. Counseling is a dialogue, meaning the involvement of 2 people (at least). The counselor isn't the one determining reality, it's the client. Also, there's a difference between a psychiatrist, and a clinician. Counseling is often done by the clinician. Read back on my posts to get a better understanding of what I said about counseling and exhaustive testing.

    rather, those who perceive reality in such a way that it is hindering their functionality in society may seek treatment. On a more complex level, you could also say that society has such a level of conformity that it is the rest of us who fail this minority, as opposed to accusing the minority of being delusional. That is to say, just like many societies have integrated many cultural, gender, and sexual identities into one place peacefully, perhaps it could also be useful to integrate the disabled and those who perceived reality differently as well.
    Counseling in my mind isn't a determination of reality. Counseling is what clinicians use to help their clients. It's a reflective process, and based upon those reflections, the clinician can determine whether or not they have a disorder depending upon if their reflections matches the symptoms of the disorder.

    Counseling isn't a way of determining reality, it's more like reflecting upon reality. Therefore, the "objective reality" depends upon the client.

    Disorders are generally diagnosed when a person cannot function in their community; perhaps the community is equally responsible for this lack of functionality?
    Well, technically, people get diagnosed even when they don't have any lack of functions. For instance, Restless Legs Syndrome. That's a bull**** disorder. As is the medication for the disorder.

    With the same type of logic that you're using, I can say that it's the communities fault for believing in this "lack of functionality" as the cause of the disorder.

    So I do agree with you, that the community does play a role in deciding the functionality of a disorder.

    How do you create a picture of what reality is? What is reality?
    I think I answered this already in the above section. It isn't that the psychologist is determining reality for the client, the psychologist is helping the client reflect, and therefore helping them create a better understanding of who they are. That reality is dependent upon the individual.

    This is what I was pointing to earlier. Identity is not necessarily determined by the body, however if the body does not conform with the needs of the mind then there may be a serious psychological disharmony.


    That's what I've been trying to say in the last 50 pages. That the problem lies with the body, not the mind.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Then why post at all?
    You telling me you have the right to express your opinion but I don't?
    Who the **** made you god.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

    Australian researchers have identified a significant link between a gene involved in testosterone action and male-to-female transsexualism.

    DNA analysis from 112 male-to-female transsexual volunteers showed they were more likely to have a longer version of the androgen receptor gene.

    The genetic difference may cause weaker testosterone signals, the team reported in Biological Psychiatry.

    However, other genes are also likely to play a part, they stressed.

    Increasingly, biological factors are being implicated in gender identity.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    This isn't what I said at all. Counseling is a dialogue, meaning the involvement of 2 people (at least). The counselor isn't the one determining reality, it's the client. Also, there's a difference between a psychiatrist, and a clinician. Counseling is often done by the clinician. Read back on my posts to get a better understanding of what I said about counseling and exhaustive testing.

    Counseling in my mind isn't a determination of reality. Counseling is what clinicians use to help their clients. It's a reflective process, and based upon those reflections, the clinician can determine whether or not they have a disorder depending upon if their reflections matches the symptoms of the disorder.

    Counseling isn't a way of determining reality, it's more like reflecting upon reality. Therefore, the "objective reality" depends upon the client.
    Thank you for the clarification. I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Well, technically, people get diagnosed even when they don't have any lack of functions. For instance, Restless Legs Syndrome. That's a bull**** disorder. As is the medication for the disorder.
    I think your comparison is way off the mark. Although this is conjecture, I do believe there is an aspect of the medical community that is in bed with the pharmaceutical companies, and so we see a series of new "diseases" being created each year in order to sell newer and more expensive medications. So yes, they can be diagnosed for a non-existent problem.

    That said... if you are trying to draw a parallel between false diagnosis of RLS and transexualism, they are like day and night. The latter has way more precedent and a longer tradition of medical study than even homosexuality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I think I answered this already in the above section. It isn't that the psychologist is determining reality for the client, the psychologist is helping the client reflect, and therefore helping them create a better understanding of who they are. That reality is dependent upon the individual.
    I misinterpreted your original wording. It turns out we agree.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    I don't think this erases the core inequity that exists within society. We will begin to see language such as "normal gene" versus "abnormal gene", implying that one requires correction and the other does not. A similar phenomenon is happening in research into homosexuality. My personal hope is that social inequities are corrected before gene therapy becomes advanced enough to "correct" discovered sexuality genes, otherwise there may be grave consequences.

    These unique individuals in our society should not have to conform to a social status quo, since they were born naturally the way they are.

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