View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #491
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Riiiight.
    And you, in conjunction with- haha- Jamesrage, would be in a better position to make that determination than the APA and the entire national and international medical and mental health community.

    Just because at this point in human history a group of psychiatrists make a determination, does not mean it is correct. Look at the history of science and psychiatry and see how many times things once taken to be true have been proven wrong. You'd probably be in the crowd of people burning a guy at the stake for spreading the blasphemy that the Earth is not the center of the universe.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Their physical sex is reality, and for some reason the mind does not accept reality. This is obviously a mental illness, and they need treatment to help them accept reality. I'm not sure exactly when in medicine it became acceptable to alter reality in order to be in line with the delusion of a mentally ill patient, but it's wrong.
    Yes, they need treatment, and for many, the treatment is gender reassignment surgery. Other than that, there is no "treatment" that works. It's like trying to "treat" people for being homosexuals like they used to do pre-1970's. It doesn't work and it's who they are, structurally. For the sake of argument I'm going to presume you are a heterosexual male. Now, imagine being treated for being a "heterosexual" so that you perfectly conform to a "homosexual" reality. It cannot be done.

    I would say it's only a "mental illness" once their inability to reconcile their situation begins to degrade their quality of life; however, knowing that their physical body is a different sex than their mental gender is not in of itself a mental illness. If you would kindly do an iota of preliminary research, you would see that there is no treatment to make them come into alignment with their physical sex.

    Gender identity is hardwired in the brain. It is more than likely a structural process. In other words, it is natural. Not all transexuals want reassignment surgery, but those who do should have the option. Many who don't come to terms with their situation need a therapist to figure out their options; others don't believe they have a problem, but a therapeutic diagnosis can help them to alleviate the societal stigma.

    It's ignorant to make a blanket statement calling every person with gender identity issues delusional. Please do some basic research. In my line of medicine I don't deal with this type of issue, but even I know basic information about it. It's not a matter of the mind not accepting reality; the disposition of the mind is reality, and their physical bodies do not conform to that reality.

  3. #493
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Their physical sex is reality, and for some reason the mind does not accept reality. This is obviously a mental illness, and they need treatment to help them accept reality. I'm not sure exactly when in medicine it became acceptable to alter reality in order to be in line with the delusion of a mentally ill patient, but it's wrong.
    At page 50, I was so hoping that we were past this nonsense.

    I've cited maybe 4-5 studies about GID, GID identity, and SRT. I mean, we even had Sean, an actual person with BIID to elaborate about identity.

    What is it that makes you reject the individuals choice in identity? I don't get it. Just because you have a penis, you automatically throw out all possibilities that may suggest otherwise? Really? Even with the surmounting evidence that says you're body doesn't define who you are?

    The problem isn't that GIDs or BIIDs have a delusion, its that you aren't capable of accepting the reality that they have a concrete identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    The problem isn't that GIDs or BIIDs have a delusion, its that you aren't capable of accepting the reality that they have a concrete identity.
    I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.

  5. #495
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.
    I agree, there's no mistake about that. More research is definitely called for, as is always.

    It may be that it is a delusion, a symptom of another disorder. But there are already measures that take that into account (DSM-V should have definitely improved in this area). The extensive counseling and the doctors' consent, and all of what everybody who knew a transsexual has said in this thread. The process is a tiresome one, and an exhaustive one.

    These measures should give us a good picture of what reality is and what identity is for the transsexual, even though it may not always be correct 100% of the time. But the fact that there's been such a high degree of success with SRT points towards the idea that identity is not dictated by the body. When you put all of this together, it suggests that the high majority of the cases dealing with GID are cases concerning Identity, not delusions.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion
    Ok.

    that is the result of a diseased brain.
    Now it's a diseased brain? What disease?
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  7. #497
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    As stated earlier, there is evidence of neurological changes in the brain of people who have BIID. There is also changes in skin conductivity above the required level of amputation/injury and below it - something that apparently can't be faked...
    This is interesting. Are these changes noted before or after an impairment occurs?
    Changes noted before amputation. So if someone needs an amputation 3" above the knee, the skin conductivity will be different when measured above and below the required amputation level.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And, in no way, am I diminishing the disabling effect of BIID.
    I am very glad to hear that. BIID has certainly altered my quality of life to the point that I dread the rest of my life unless I get the paralysis I need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Issues do not remain after SRT.
    They obviously do in some cases as indicated by those that go back to their birth sex with mutilated organs. Removal of organs is extreme--perhaps it's appropriate in some cases, but I certainly think it may be too available due to those things Lightdemon and I were discussing about comorbidity of illness. Once the operation is done, there is no going back to the healthy natural state. And that's true for BIID and GID.
    And
    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    People who are against this... a lot of them think that some people with an idea go out and get their sex changed all willy nilly. It's an incredibly expensive, mentally and physically demanding process that involves many screening processes. Doctors who know how to perform this special kind of surgery will not permit you to do it without proof that you have received substantial psychological assessment. You basically have to get the ok from many doctors, and they don't give it easily.
    This is an interesting topic for me - how many TS try to "revert" back. I haven't looked for research on this, and don't even know if there is, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the majority of people who regret surgery and transition are the ones who actually bypassed the "system". It is actually not that difficult to get hormones on the black market, and getting surgery in Asia is also not particularly tricky. Just a thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Their physical sex is reality, and for some reason the mind does not accept reality. This is obviously a mental illness, and they need treatment to help them accept reality. I'm not sure exactly when in medicine it became acceptable to alter reality in order to be in line with the delusion of a mentally ill patient, but it's wrong.
    Yeah, but... The problem is that there is NO "treatment" other than surgery to help transsexuals. Psychotherapy and psychiatry is helpful for people who have GID to get to know themselves better and ensure as much as possible that SRS is indeed what they are after. But that's about the extent of it. Medication doesn't change the need. So, why alter the body rather than align the mind? Simply because there is no way to align the mind. And transsexuals are not delusional.

    FWIW, that paragraph I just wrote would also apply to transabled individuals
    Last edited by transabled; 10-26-08 at 06:01 PM. Reason: typo
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    http://transabled.org - a multi-author blog about the experience of living with BIID

  8. #498
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    I tried to back up a few pages and see where this discussion was before adding the following link to mull over, however; I am lost with this acronym laden discussion here.

    Anyhow thought this is article may be germane for this thread:

    BBC NEWS | Health | Male transsexual gene link found

    Australian researchers have identified a significant link between a gene involved in testosterone action and male transsexualism.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    They obviously do in some cases as indicated by those that go back to their birth sex with mutilated organs. Removal of organs is extreme--perhaps it's appropriate in some cases, but I certainly think it may be too available due to those things Lightdemon and I were discussing about comorbidity of illness. Once the operation is done, there is no going back to the healthy natural state. And that's true for BIID and GID.
    I brought up comorbidity of illness way back, early in the thread. This is an important point. I agree, and have said that a thorough evaluation must occur to be sure that GID is the accurate diagnosis. There are other issues that can present symptoms similar to GID. These issues will respond to more traditional psychotherapuetic interventions, so they most be teased out before a treatment as radical as SRT is performed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Their physical sex is reality, and for some reason the mind does not accept reality. This is obviously a mental illness, and they need treatment to help them accept reality. I'm not sure exactly when in medicine it became acceptable to alter reality in order to be in line with the delusion of a mentally ill patient, but it's wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Just because at this point in human history a group of psychiatrists make a determination, does not mean it is correct. Look at the history of science and psychiatry and see how many times things once taken to be true have been proven wrong. You'd probably be in the crowd of people burning a guy at the stake for spreading the blasphemy that the Earth is not the center of the universe.
    Before making such uninformed statements, try reading through the thread. Then, when you make your points, try coming from a position of knowledge, with some substantiation or facts. You have presented none of this, here.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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