View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
Page 49 of 54 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 490 of 538

Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #481
    Global Moderator
    Sinister
    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    133,668

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    That's not what I've read--there are varying "levels" of identification in BIID just as there are in GID. Some BIID people are perfectly fine to just "pass" as disabled, just as some GID are fine with passing.
    I agree. My post was unclear. I should have included the word "desire" to denote the varying levels.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #482
    Global Moderator
    Sinister
    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    133,668

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    This, also, I think is premature to identify as a "conclusion." There is little information for such a definitive statement as your last sentence indicates.
    That's true, though, preliminarily, accurate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #483
    Global Moderator
    Sinister
    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    133,668

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    It seems that the conclusion Captain and you are pointing to is that male and female are common "normal" states whereas things like BIID aims for a "dysfunctional" state. Why would it be fine to treat an identity disorder in one instance with complying with the identity perception and not in another case? As one respondent in the study stated, "We donít do liposuction on anorexics. So why amputate the genitals of these patients?"
    There is a difference. The issues around Anorexia remain even if liposuction occurs. Weight is not the issue with anorexics; control and mood modulation is. With BIID, OCD components and self-injurious components are also looking to be resolved. GID is caused by the disconnect between gender and genitalia. Issues do not remain after SRT.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #484
    Global Moderator
    Sinister
    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    133,668

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by transabled View Post
    Captain, I'm sorry to contradict you, but your understanding is innacurate. BIID sufferers want to get to one point, and one point only. We want to align our psyche with our bodies. Unfortunately, the psyche isn't responding to any methods, we are therefore left with changing the body. It is not a question of identifying with an outside group, it is a question of internal identity and body-image.
    Firstly, welcome to the forum. Your input is helpful in this issue. As a treating psychotherapist I have not worked with anyone with BIID, but I have read much of the research, including visiting your site, previously.

    From what I understand, what you say above is only part of the picture. There is also a component of envy of the disabled and desire to identify with someone they feel like. From your website, one of the symptoms that will, probably, be included as diagnostic criteria for BIID in the DSM-V:

    A feeling of intense jealousy at the sight of someone who has the impairment required.
    My comment was showing a differential between GID and BIID. GID sufferers do not have a similar symptom.

    Yeah, but... The only reason that there is no such data is because the research hasn't been done. I'm not saying that there necessarily *is* genetic component, but I'm saying you can't argue that there is NOT. We simply do not have the data to state categorically one way or the other.

    For what it's worth, Dr. V.S.Ramachandran (a world reknown neurologist) and Dr. P. McGeoch at the University of San Diego in California have uncovered incongruities in the MRI brain scan of several individuals with BIID that they studied. The research has not been released yet that I am aware of, but having participated in the study myself, I know that they've found something.
    That is certainly interesting to know.

    This statement shows a misunderstanding both of BIID and of the experience of living with a disability. BIID sufferers want to be whole, and the only way to accomplish that at this point is by removing limbs, doing spinal cord transections, etc. We are not after "illness", nor even "disability". We are after having an impairment. If society makes that impairment disabling, then, we have to put up with that, but becoming "disabled" is not the goal. I made the previous statement assuming that you are aware of the differences between social models and medical models of disabilities. If not, a primer can be found on my site: Impairment vs. Disability - BIID-Info.org
    I am aware of the difference, and misspoke. Impaired is the accurate word. Penned the post after an insomniatic night. Thank you.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... What we gain is a feeling of wholeness, of rightness. When it comes to interacting with other people, we can do it from a position of internal and emotional strength.
    A BIID sufferer gains the experience of being impaired, understanding what being impaired is, and, feeling whole because of being impaired. A GID already is the gender that SRT will accomplish for them. A BIID sufferer is not impaired prior to any surgery.



    Well, not really. We do not seek body alteration. We seek to align our psyche with our body. The fact that the only way to currently do this involves body alteration is nearly irrelevant.

    You're mixing and matching stuff here Captain, don't confuse the issue. People who have OCD don't do the things they do because of a need for acceptance.
    That's not completely true. Unconscious motivations and anxieties that create rituals and OCD can, certainly be caused by a need/desire for acceptance. This could be the "trigger" point or the deep motivation, but is often lost through years of ritualistic behavior. It's like Pavlov's Dog. If the behavior is repeated for a long enough time, the trigger is often so buried that it is no longer the direct trigger.

    Self-injurers are repeaters of actions.
    There is far more to self-injury then that. The repetitive nature of self injury is a minor component. Self-injurers, self-harm for several reasons: mood modulation, control, suicide prevention, affective creation, and/or a response to self-loathing. Often, similar to OCD, if the behavior continues, a Pavlovian reaction will occur; the trigger may be unconscious or unknown, but the behavior will occur, anyway. Cessation of the behavior, reproduces the triggering feelings, often with intensity, which can dislodge the triggers and generate understanding of them. +30% of my practice is made up of self-injurers, and I give workshops on the issue, so I can, certainly provide more information on it if you'd like.

    Those of us with BIID who have managed to acquire the impairment they needed saw their anguish and need gone overnight. They state, almost universally that the only thing they regret is to not have done it sooner.
    I hear this. My only issue with it is that it still differs from GID in the sense that it is a created body alteration, whereas GID matches brain biology to body structure. I have a hard time understanding how someone can be born with brain/neuro biology that defines them as impaired. We know that gender biology is rooted in several core biological constructs. Impairment is not.

    I'll give you that BIID might *look* like other conditions, such as BDD (anorexia for example), but there are some quite distinct differences.
    I would agree with this.

    As stated earlier, there is evidence of neurological changes in the brain of people who have BIID. There is also changes in skin conductivity above the required level of amputation/injury and below it - something that apparently can't be faked...
    This is interesting. Are these changes noted before or after an impairment occurs?

    That is, indeed, one of the strongest arguments here "against" BIID. There is no "natural biological state of being an amputee or paraplegic". But then, there are many congenital conditions that have people born paralysed (CP, Spina Bifida), or amputees (technically not amputees, but missing limbs). It is not inconceivable that our brain's body map has something screwy, for whatever reason, that makes us see ourselves the way we do. The fact that "disability is not a natural state" (even if you buy that argument) doesn't make the condition any less real or disabling.
    I can agree with all of this. Our own self-perception can be very confusing and, often does not match how other see us, or with the reality of our bodies.

    And, in no way, am I diminishing the disabling effect of BIID.

    Of course there is a political bend to the research into BIID. Researchers need to be funded, funders have political leanings. Doh! Doesn't mean that research is not appropriate.
    I agree. I have read some questionable research, and have read some that seems quite valid. I suppose that is par for the course, especially with new research.

    If you're serious about reading up on BIID, I invite you to spend some time on biid-info.org. If there are papers there that you can't get your hands on, or papers that have not yet been uploaded, please feel free to contact me directly and I'll pass them on to you.

    I invite anyone who is genuinely interested in learning more about BIID to come by my blog, transabled.org Blogging about BIID and read up there, and contact me by email Contact transabled.org Blogging about BIID

    I've been to the first site and several others. I saw a documentary that chronicled the disorder some time ago and it got me interested. I haven't done much research, though, and you have been quite informative.

    Cheers
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    Mace Windu: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #485
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 01:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    . Issues do not remain after SRT.
    They obviously do in some cases as indicated by those that go back to their birth sex with mutilated organs. Removal of organs is extreme--perhaps it's appropriate in some cases, but I certainly think it may be too available due to those things Lightdemon and I were discussing about comorbidity of illness. Once the operation is done, there is no going back to the healthy natural state. And that's true for BIID and GID.

  6. #486
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 01:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    A GID already is the gender that SRT will accomplish for them.
    Is there a way to test the brain chemistry other than through autopsy. If so--THAT should be a criteria for SRT.

    A BIID sufferer is not impaired prior to any surgery.
    <snip>
    I hear this. My only issue with it is that it still differs from GID in the sense that it is a created body alteration, whereas GID matches brain biology to body structure. I have a hard time understanding how someone can be born with brain/neuro biology that defines them as impaired. We know that gender biology is rooted in several core biological constructs. Impairment is not.
    I read something that suggested BIID was very like Phantom Limb, but only in reverse. That would be the same sort of brain chemistry issue that you are citing as why GID should be surgically treated.

  7. #487
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 05:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    In the city I grew up I had a transfemale friend named Katrina. I didn't know her for very long, maybe 5-6 months (after that I moved). She lead a very difficult life, not because she had sex reassignment surgery, but because of society. People constantly wanted to label her as a freak or someone who was mentally ill. She would have been mentally ill had she not been permitted to change her sex, because she felt completely trapped.

    People who are against this... a lot of them think that some people with an idea go out and get their sex changed all willy nilly. It's an incredibly expensive, mentally and physically demanding process that involves many screening processes. Doctors who know how to perform this special kind of surgery will not permit you to do it without proof that you have received substantial psychological assessment. You basically have to get the ok from many doctors, and they don't give it easily.

    You may think it's sick because you don't get it, and you don't get it because you obviously are comfortable with the anatomy you were born with. That is the whole point of what it means to be transexual... you have a gender identity that is not compatible with your physical sex.

    I think by judging these people, we are excluding members from our society that have very unique insight into human identity. They have experienced what it is like to be perceived as both genders by others, even though their psychological gender has remained consistent. They know what it is like to transition between the two. Most of the harsh judgment comes from ignorance. If you fall outside of the very narrowly defined male/female heterosexual status quo, then you are likely subject to misunderstanding. Homosexuals have received more political elevation, especially in recent years, but transexuals still remain a grey area (though admittedly their issue is not about who they are attracted to).

    I also don't like how the psychiatric community discusses this particular issue, but I understand that their research is necessary to shed more light on this way of being.
    Last edited by Orion; 10-26-08 at 08:34 AM.

  8. #488
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Seen
    08-01-09 @ 11:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    40

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I think the whole whole tranny issue is no different than someone who thinks he is a duck or two people.Giving some one a sex change operation to someone who thinks he is a she or a she who is a he would be like giving someone with multiple personality disorder multiple birth certificates and IDs and calling them cured of their mental disorder or attaching some prosthetic wings and gluing some feathers on someone who thinks they are a duck and calling them cured. You are not curing you them, all you are doing is facilitating their mental disorder and calling them cured when in reality they are still ****ed up in the head. So attaching fake boobs on a man,chopping his penis off and giving him some hormone to make him look less masculine is just facilitating his mental disorder. Facilitating mental disorders instead of actually curing them should be considered a highly unethical practice by the mental health association not a treatment.
    Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.

  9. #489
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    10-26-10 @ 04:34 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,978

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyalpha View Post
    Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.
    Riiiight.
    And you, in conjunction with- haha- Jamesrage, would be in a better position to make that determination than the APA and the entire national and international medical and mental health community.


  10. #490
    User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Last Seen
    08-01-09 @ 11:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    40

    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    [QUOTE=Orius;1057783148]
    That is the whole point of what it means to be transexual... you have a gender identity that is not compatible with your physical sex.
    [QUOTE]

    Their physical sex is reality, and for some reason the mind does not accept reality. This is obviously a mental illness, and they need treatment to help them accept reality. I'm not sure exactly when in medicine it became acceptable to alter reality in order to be in line with the delusion of a mentally ill patient, but it's wrong.

Page 49 of 54 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •