Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

faminedynasty · 10-24-08, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightdemon

You could be right, I'm not sure about it myself. It's an area that I haven't been sufficiently exposed to in my educational background.

I'd be interested in the Captain's assessment of BIID. After all, my degree in psych is nothing in comparison to the Captain's thousands of years of experience in counseling.

Good of you to be a bit agnostic about it as the research around it is very young. And shame on me if I spoke as if an authority.

independent_thinker2002 · 10-24-08, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Felicity

Do you know how to google Eucharistic Miracle? Jeesh.

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano

And how do we know that the heart and blood were unleavened bread and water beforehand? Hearsay from over a 1000 years ago doesn't cut it for me. People may have thought they saw that. There could have been slight of hand at play. I can't explain David Blaine's tricks but they aren't miracles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

And the belief is not dependent upon such proof. Religious faith is chosen--not a compulsion (generally--although some mental disorders do manifest with obsessive religious components ). Is transsexuality chosen?

Having the surgery most definitely is chosen.

But with religion, you could agree that there is a God without actually believing a part of the dogma of said religion. Yet, the said religion compulses people to believe it all.

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Originally Posted by Felicity

I know--I mentioned extraordinary body modification in a prior post. Why don't you read my position before you attack?

I missed it. Sorry. What post number?

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Originally Posted by Felicity

No...but you're acting like him.

Now who is "attacking"? Who did I try to insult you by comparison with?

You know damn well this does nothing to further debate. Can it.

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Originally Posted by Felicity

Amputation?

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Sometimes professional athletes may choose to have a non-essential digit amputated to relieve chronic pain and impaired performance. Daniel Chick elected to have his left ring finger amputated as chronic pain and injury was limiting his performance.[4] Rugby union player Jone Tawake also had a finger removed.[5].\ NFL safety Ronnie Lott had the tip of his pinky finger removed after it was damaged in the 1985 NFL season.

Amputation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ask 1069 for the pain olympics link.

People castrate themselves too. I don't agree with it. But if they do it safely, I don't care.

Felicity · 10-24-08, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

And how do we know that the heart and blood were unleavened bread and water beforehand? Hearsay from over a 1000 years ago doesn't cut it for me. People may have thought they saw that. There could have been slight of hand at play. I can't explain David Blaine's tricks but they aren't miracles.

Well--the Church doesn't require belief in the particular miracles. As I said, they are for the benefit of building up the faithful--not for convincing unbelievers.

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Having the surgery most definitely is chosen.

Having the delusion one is trapped in the body of the wrong gender, or "feeling" like that, certainly isn't.

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But with religion, you could agree that there is a God without actually believing a part of the dogma of said religion. Yet, the said religion compulses people to believe it all.

The religion can't MAKE someone believe anything at all.

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I missed it. Sorry. What post number?

Here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

.In some cases, feeding a delusion might be the best course to effect the most possible outcome. HOWEVER, to say it is the correct course of action--to say that it is "corrective" or "sex reassignment"--to claim that it is "fixing" or "curing" or "making right" that which "should" be some other way, is simply wrong. It is an attempt to somehow normalize a mental disorder to something it is not--and it is an attempt to elevate a surgical procedure on healthy tissue that is essentially mutilation of properly functioning organs to a necessary and appropriate treatment. It is not. But, like people are allowed to get mastectomies because they fear breast cancer, or people are allowed to do radical body modifications, there is an argument to allow it to be done. How supportive would you be of a person who viewed themselves as a legless person having their legs removed in order to feel more comfortable in their skin?

independent_thinker2002 · 10-24-08, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Well--the Church doesn't require belief in the particular miracles. As I said, they are for the benefit of building up the faithful--not for convincing unbelievers.

So essentially it's rhetoric for the base?

Nobody wants to be a bad Christian. Nobody wants to be a "doubting Thomas".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Having the delusion one is trapped in the body of the wrong gender, or "feeling" like that, certainly isn't.

No, I doubt they would choose to feel that way. I don't believe that they think they are genetically the opposite sex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

The religion can't MAKE someone believe anything at all.

No, it can't.

But isn't the whole Bible the "Word of God"? How could you not believe a part? Isn't that blasphemy to God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Here

Thanks.

Felicity · 10-24-08, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightdemon

I'm not sure I have a definite opinion about BIID. I haven't really read extensively on this yet. As I understand it, this disorder is still fairly new, or at least the researches haven't offered much explanation of this disorder.

Here's a transgender BIID person's perspective on the similarities.

A comparison between transsexuality and transableism transabled.org Blogging about BIID

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On the other hand, I agree that this would in fact be cutting healthy flesh, and may actually feed into the disorder. This would also fit under the category of insanity because we have to factor in debilitation. However, it isn't complete insanity, because strictly speaking insanity constitutes a threat (either to themselves or to other people) which is why we institutionalize the insane. Those with BIID do not necessarily carry that same threat to themselves. But the debilitation factor should be considered.

Extreme body modification like excessive tattooing is debilitating socially--and yet, do you consider them perhaps insane?

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What I'm saying is that people shouldn't view it as normal, but they shouldn't use that non-normalcy to discriminate. Myself being a minority, I wouldn't want my non-normalcy to dictate the way I have to lead my life.

I certainly don't advocate discrimination. But I also don't advocate just doing whatever one wants to to the body. There is a limit, and I think destroying functional organs or removing healthy tissue due to a compulsion or strictly a desire is that limit.

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Just one instance and it shoots my +95% satisfied reports to hell? I'm sorry, but I don't think that's possible.

Ok...maybe not just one...

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The study that I've linked earlier, showed only 1-2% of the people regretting their sex change operation. This is indication that the operation is extremely successful in achieving satisfaction.
<snip>
I'm sorry Felicity, but you need to do more than just find one instance. Statistically speaking, it would be irrelevant.

YouTube - 20% regret sex change

YouTube - returnedhome's Channel

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I'm interested in looking at the Olsen and Möller article. Do you have the full article? What I want to see is what they wrote in the conclusion/discussion part of their report.

I don't, sorry.

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And while this article is very interesting, it is about Schizophrenia, not specifically about Transsexualism.

No--it's about comorbidity of the two--it's in the title.

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It cites 25% of people with Schizophrenia to have cross-gender identification, which is what they called "comorbidity" (a fancy word for having multiple disorders). It also cites that because of comorbidity it makes it extremely difficult for the psychologist to diagnose the client.

Right--and as such, The gender "problem" is sometimes a delusion--when the person BELIEVES he/she is of the opposite sex and is trapped in the wrong body. At least 25%! That is a significant percentage!

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It cites further that antipsychotic drugs helped that 25% by eliminating cross-gender identity, but they conclude that it was because they had Schizophrenia, not GID specifically.

What do you make of the ones whose issue resolve spontaneously?

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It's a good article. This would explain why sex change operations do not always have satisfactory results for all clients. Perhaps it was because they never had GID in the first place, instead they had Schizophrenia.

Perhaps GID is simply a manifestation of a mental disorder.

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Again, you're just not accepting the persons choice of identity. You are only calling it a delusion because you do not accept their choice.

The article I cited demonstrates that at least some of the time--a significant portion of the time--the gender question IS a delusion.

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I'm sorry Felicity, but +95% satisfaction is a huge number. I'm surprised you're not sold by it...

Hmmmm...there's reason to question that percentage as Walt discusses in his video.

ADK_Forever · 10-24-08, 05:55 PM

And just who the hell is this "Walter"?

Where does he get his #s from?
What are his qualifications to speak on this?

Come on.

Felicity · 10-24-08, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

So essentially it's rhetoric for the base?

In a sense, yes.

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Nobody wants to be a bad Christian. Nobody wants to be a "doubting Thomas".

I don't know what that means. I am a very skeptical Catholic when it comes to miracles and such. I don't know whether I buy the one I linked you to or not. It has some compelling evidence, but ... Luckily, I could even call it a load of horse manure and still be in good standing with the Church. I do believe the Fatima miracles and I also believe that the Shroud of Turin is Jesus' burial cloth. The evidence meets my believability test--which consists of nothing, i just believe it.

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But isn't the whole Bible the "Word of God"? How could you not believe a part? Isn't that blasphemy to God?

The Bible is a means of God's Revelation of Himself--the Word of God is actually Jesus Christ.

But really--isn't this thread supposed to be about Transgendered people? Why do you want to hijack it with challenging my personal faith? Are you interested in becoming Catholic. Feel free to PM me for more info.

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Thanks.

You're welcome.

Felicity · 10-24-08, 06:09 PM

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Originally Posted by ADK_Forever

And just who the hell is this "Walter"?

Where does he get his #s from?
What are his qualifications to speak on this?

Come on.

A man who underwent the surgery and then reversed--who then studies the issue extensively and is apparently in touch with others who have a similar experience. www.sexchangeregret.com - SEX CHANGE REGRET

gunner · 10-24-08, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Are you interested in becoming Catholic. Feel free to PM me for more info.

Dont do it, stay an independent thinker

Paul.

Felicity · 10-24-08, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunner

Dont do it, stay an independent thinker

Paul.

I'm not exactly expecting my PM box to fill up.

...but I wouldn't mind it.

10-24-08, 05:55 PM	#446
ADK_Forever Guru Join Date: Sep 2008 Last Seen: Today 08:47 PM Posts: 2,933 Thanks: 772 Thanked 753 Times in 552 Posts Total Awards: 1	Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood? And just who the hell is this "Walter"? Where does he get his #s from? What are his qualifications to speak on this? Come on.
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