View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #341
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    According to whom?

    And if the answer is the person looking in the mirror, wouldn't that fit delusional thinking since the reality is male genitalia which indicates "maleness." The "feelings" don't identify gender, sexual organs do.
    It depends on how you understand gender. One school of thought is to define gender by one's sexual organs. Another is that gender has its basis in the brain, the formation of which predates the formation of the sex organs and is independent of them. This would negate the "delusion" argument.
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  2. #342
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    I just figured I'd throw in my own personal, even though limited, experience with this issue. I know I have mentioned this before, but maybe not some of what I learned from it.

    My brother was actually considering doing this at one time. He thought he might feel better as a woman because he liked to dress in women's clothes. He had a name chosen and everything. He has since changed his mind. He still dresses as a woman at times, but told us that he didn't think he would actually have felt right about giving up his penis.

    My family wanted to know more about the process that he would go through, and discovered that most doctors highly encourage and stress, that anyone who feels that they would be better off as physically being the other gender should have extensive counseling to determine if this is actually the right thing for them and to find out if there are any other issues from the GID. They also advise that family and close friends receive at least info if not counseling themselves. The person should also live as the other gender for so long. I am not sure if this included no sexual satisfaction. The hormone therapies come first, then the surgeries are generally done from least noticeable/intrusive to the final one of actually having the sex organ changed. To me, it seems like this is a pretty good method of ensuring that most transgendered people will adjust well mentally to becoming the sex they believe they were born as and it gives the people who are not really sure plenty of opportunity to not go all the way. Of course, there are probably people who don't go through all this to change their gender, but I'd bet it is actually really rare to have a person just get the surgery done out of the blue with no counseling or living as the gender they want to be like South Park would have us believe.

    I have actually known a couple of others who have gone through or had just the final part of the surgery to go. One was a boyfriend of my aunt's who started life as a woman. Now my family was a little uncomfortable with this, but it really didn't come totally out that he had been a she until quite a few months into the relationship. My aunt was living with us while she was dating him. We did question whether he was actually a she, but felt it would be rude to ask. The other person is a friend of my sister's from her job in Hawaii. I don't think that I would have actually known she had been born a he if my sister hadn't have told me. She is very pretty. There are actually a lot of transgendered people in Hawaii. Now I did have a woman gym teacher in MS that many of the students claimed had been a man and she certainly could have been with her build, but I don't know for sure and that kind of info is not something the schools put out. I would think that this would get into privacy laws.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It depends on how you understand gender. One school of thought is to define gender by one's sexual organs. Another is that gender has its basis in the brain, the formation of which predates the formation of the sex organs and is independent of them. This would negate the "delusion" argument.
    What support is there that the perception of gender is something that occurs prior to the formation of sex organs? Are you now describing the perception of gender contrary to sex organs as an organic disorder? And, if it is an organic disorder, it is a brain injury, not an injury to the sexual organs. Thus, altering the sex organs is not treating the disease and rather operating on healthy tissue.

  4. #344
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No. Nothing came out. I am not quite sure how I would've handled it if something had come out.

    Consequently, I was never able to achieve climax either. My mind would wander back to "it" and I just lost interest after a while. Plus he started complaining that he was getting sore and my mind began to wonder about the structural integrity of his pelvic area so I opted out of a happy ending.
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  5. #345
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    People can survive in all sorts of ****ed-up conditions: no arms and legs, faces rotting off, giant tumors growing out of their heads. Just look at developing nations, the stuff people manage to survive for decades with.
    Deformities are one thing, and this is something else. Two different things.

    A transexual person has survived in a grotesquely malformed body for decades: since birth, to be precise (which is to their credit, and points to their fundamental psychological fitness and health).
    But every day has undoubtedly been a torture. One does not "get used to" hideous deformities.
    This isn't a hideous deformity. This may be something a very unhappy person has decided makes them even unhappier, but it's not a deformity.

    One might live with them, but I'm sure one never loses hope that somehow, someday, one will be "fixed", freed from said deformity.
    One gets up each day in a deformed body; one drags oneself through the days, because there is no choice, no immediate solution.
    No one could thrive under such circumstances; their loathing of their bodies and their discomfort in them no doubt colors every minute of their lives.
    Here again, they loathe their bodies, or do they loathe themselves? Seems like one and the same thing. What did people do before all this surgery? I know some just cut off the penis, but then what about the women who want facial hair, and no boobs, and a penis? Not going to happen without hormones, and major surgery. That major surgery has to be terribly painful, so I'd have to wonder how many wind up dope addicts afterwards.

    Sex reassignment surgery in such cases is as humane as separating conjoined twins, as reasonable as removing a giant esophageal tumor that is slowly strangling off the person's breath.
    I don't think it's on the same level, and it's not a deformity, it's just something they don't like. You can have a big nose, and it's not deformed in any way, it's just big. Then there are times when it can grow to be deformed, and this is different. Having a perfectly formed penis or vagina is not a deformity it's just something, for some reason, you don't like, but in this case, to me, you should be happy to be alive more than, "oops I'm the wrong sex". Take some Xanax and Prozac, and learn to love what you are.

    I wonder how many who will admit it that have the sex reassignment surgery are unhappy with it. I watched a Howard Stern one night when they had on a woman who had a penis implant, or was it the other way around, but they said it was hideous, Howard and the crew did. It was like off center, plus how would it work. Wouldn't you need a pump? I don't see how a penis could be reconstructed with all the nerve endings. Now a penis to a vagina seems like it would be easier to do.
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  6. #346
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    What support is there that the perception of gender is something that occurs prior to the formation of sex organs? Are you now describing the perception of gender contrary to sex organs as an organic disorder? And, if it is an organic disorder, it is a brain injury, not an injury to the sexual organs. Thus, altering the sex organs is not treating the disease and rather operating on healthy tissue.
    "brain injury"???? Granted the brain is involved here but, "injury"? Altering the sex organs, facial hair, chest, etc. all go to make the person feel and look more like what they know they are. You would have to be able to empathize with people's suffering to be able to comprehend this.
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  7. #347
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    "brain injury"???? Granted the brain is involved here but, "injury"? Altering the sex organs, facial hair, chest, etc. all go to make the person feel and look more like what they know they are. You would have to be able to empathize with people's suffering to be able to comprehend this.
    Captain said it is a disorder that occurs in the brain prior to development of the sex organs. In the normal process, the two would match--if it is a brain issue, then the "injury" that may need "repair" occurred in the brain and has nothing to do with the genetic expression of "male-ness" or "female-ness."

  8. #348
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Captain said it is a disorder that occurs in the brain prior to development of the sex organs. In the normal process, the two would match--if it is a brain issue, then the "injury" that may need "repair" occurred in the brain and has nothing to do with the genetic expression of "male-ness" or "female-ness."
    A brain developmental disorder, if that is what we are indeed talking about, is not an "injury". Once again, you are trying to come off as wordier than you can handle. Speak using words you're comfortable using. You're only confusing yourself. Oi vey!

    Aside from that, we do not live in Star Trek times where Bones could swipe his medical wand over someone's head and make it all right. These issues cannot be corrected, not now anyway. These people feel down deep in their bones that they are one sex inside and the other outside. And they have felt this way as long as they can remember. That's it. Period. Why is that so hard for right wingers to accept?
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    A brain developmental disorder, if that is what we are indeed talking about, is not an "injury". Once again, you are trying to come off as wordier than you can handle. Speak using words you're comfortable using. You're only confusing yourself. Oi vey!
    If you have trouble with vocabulary...a dictionary helps. A developmental disorder is an injury if it is organic in nature (meaning a physical problem rather than an emotional or psycho-social problem).

    Aside from that, we do not live in Star Trek times where Bones could swipe his medical wand over someone's head and make it all right. These issues cannot be corrected, not now anyway. These people feel down deep in their bones that they are one sex inside and the other outside. And they have felt this way as long as they can remember. That's it. Period. Why is that so hard for right wingers to accept?
    Because we don't feed into the delusional "feelings" of psychotic people because it is a detriment to them even if it might make them "feel" more comfortable. If GID is a delusion, changing sex is feeding into the delusion. If it is an organic problem, surgical work on the sex organs is not addressing the damaged part of the body, but rather cuts healthy flesh.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    If GID is a delusion, changing sex is feeding into the delusion.
    And if it is not a delusion?
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