View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #201
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post

    The judgmental attitude people have about this matter sickens me. I hope those of you who have exhibited such narrow views feel uplifted by your efforts.
    Well at a certain point the ridiculousness of it all gets to be too much. I'll say watching the first pregnant man interviewed repeatedly about a year or so ago didn't help. On the one hand she's a woman but we're asked to indulge the fantasy that she's a man and then we're further asked to play the "she's the first pregnant man," game.

    It's hard to take it seriously after awhile.

    A man can't become a woman. A woman can't become a man. I see no reason to indulge a whole host of nonsense.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I've yet to see a convincing one. Perhaps I didn't know? How do they get around the sound of their voice? Which is usually the second biggest give away? How convincing are their genitals?
    Google is your friend.
    The female to male genitals are not particularly attractive or convincing; they're also nonfunctional (ie, they're just for show). This is one reason that so many fem-to-males just go with the hormone therapy to enlarge their clits, have a total hysterectomy, and sometimes have their labia sewn together and two implants sewn into it, to create an artificial scrotum.
    The whole thing's just for show, though.

    The male-to-fem ones are actually functional. They relocate the urethra to the appropriate place, create a clit out of some of the nerves that were once part of the penis, and carve out a fully-functional vagina, which is sometimes just a little bit shallower than an ordinary vagina, and of course ends in a blind sleeve, rather than a cervix (much like the vagina of a woman who has had a hysterectomy). It is said that men who have sex with them (with male-to-fem transexuals) can't tell the difference. Reports vary on whether they can have orgasms as women do; I tend to suspect not, but you never know. Many women who have had hysterectomies claim to still have orgasms even though they lack a uterus and cervix.
    The pics I've seen, these surgically-created vaginas are aesthetically perfect; maybe more perfect than natural vaginas, which usually have some degree of asymmetry.
    I've never examined a post-op tranny's vagina IRL, but pictures abound on the internet, on medical sites and other reputable sources.
    Last edited by 1069; 10-21-08 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #203
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well at a certain point the ridiculousness of it all gets to be too much. I'll say watching the first pregnant man interviewed repeatedly about a year or so ago didn't help. On the one hand she's a woman but we're asked to indulge the fantasy that she's a man and then we're further asked to play the "she's the first pregnant man," game.

    It's hard to take it seriously after awhile.

    A man can't become a woman. A woman can't become a man. I see no reason to indulge a whole host of nonsense.
    I see no reason to indulge your nonsense.

    Is a person who was born with a penis and who also was born with ovaries a man or a woman? If that person has the ovaries removed, is that person 'pretending' to be a man?

    If a person has a penis and at the same time has a brain with characteristics typical of a female, is that person a male or a female? If they live as a male (their external physical gender) are they pretending, or are they pretending if they live as female? Which is more profound a determinant of gender identity, do you suppose, the genitals or the brain?
    Last edited by Dezaad; 10-21-08 at 07:22 PM.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Google is your friend.
    The female to male genitals are not particularly attractive or convincing; they're also nonfunctional (ie, they're just for show). This is one reason that so many fem-to-males just go with the hormone therapy to enlarge their clits, have a total hysterectomy, and sometimes have their labia sewn together and two implants sewn into it, to create an artificial scrotum.
    The whole thing's just for show, though.

    The male-to-fem ones are actually functional. They relocate the urethra to the appropriate place, create a clit out of some of the nerves that were once part of the penis, and carve out a fully-functional vagina, which is sometimes just a little bit shallower than an ordinary vagina, and of course ends in a blind sleeve, rather than a cervix (much like the vagina of a woman who has had a hysterectomy). It is said that men who have sex with them (male-to-fem transexuals) can't tell the difference.
    The pics I've seen, these surgically-created vaginas are aesthetically perfect; maybe more perfect than natural vaginas, which usually have some degree of asymmetry.
    I've never examined a post-op tranny's vagina IRL, but pictures abound on the internet, on medical sites and other reputable sources.
    Do the male to females keep their prostate?

    I just think at a certain point you can't have it both ways. You can't on the one hand say this is a legitimate ailment or deformation or whatever that causes mental anguish and on the second hand say these folks are normal healthy mentally sound individuals.

    If drs. could turn a man into a woman or vice versa then you could argue they were ailing and now they're cured.

    But since drs. can only indulge the fantasy and attempt a replica of the preferred gender then you have to basically admit if they were mental pre op they're mental post op.

    I don't see how you get around that.

  5. #205
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Until you can switch DNA around, a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl. You can rip out, put in(on) all the new body parts you want and stuff all the hormones you want down someones throat. When the DNA test comes back from the lab, you still are what you were. You may not feel that way inside, but the science doesn't lie.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I see no reason to indulge your nonsense.

    Is a person who has a penis and who also has ovaries a man or a woman? If that person has the ovaries removed, is that person 'pretending' to be a man?

    If a person has a penis and at the same time has a brain with characteristics typical of a female, is that person a male or a female? If they live as a male (their external physical gender) are they pretending, or are they pretending if they live as female? Which is more profound a determinant of gender identity, do you suppose, the genitals or the brain?
    I think the evidence for gender disorder being an organic component of brain make up is a bit looser scientifically than you're attempting to put forth.

    That aside, if it is an issue of real organic deformity where the brain and body are in contrast surgery DOES NOT correct the abnormality.

    It's self mutilation in an attempt to create a replica of self that resembles the preferred gender. The dr. can't actually change your sex. You are STILL biologically whatever you were when you were born. Your brain/body gender dysphoria remains in existence post op. No matter how good the illusion is it is an illusion thus the first pregnant man.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Until you can switch DNA around, a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl. You can rip out, put in(on) all the new body parts you want and stuff all the hormones you want down someones throat. When the DNA test comes back from the lab, you still are what you were. You may not feel that way inside, but the science doesn't lie.
    What about people who are genetically female but have penises? Are they male or female? What about the opposite, are they male or female?

    Officer's sexuality no longer confusing | ajc.com

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Until you can switch DNA around, a guy is a guy and a girl is a girl. You can rip out, put in(on) all the new body parts you want and stuff all the hormones you want down someones throat. When the DNA test comes back from the lab, you still are what you were. You may not feel that way inside, but the science doesn't lie.
    Exactly if the rift between body/brain is strong enough to cause severe mental anguish prior to surgery the same mental issues will be present post op. They may be lessoned or heightened to various degrees but the dysphoria doesn't go away. The disconnect between brain/body/presentation will still inevitably be all screwed up, forever.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I think the evidence for gender disorder being an organic component of brain make up is a bit looser scientifically than you're attempting to put forth.

    That aside, if it is an issue of real organic deformity where the brain and body are in contrast surgery DOES NOT correct the abnormality.

    It's self mutilation in an attempt to create a replica of self that resembles the preferred gender. The dr. can't actually change your sex. You are STILL biologically whatever you were when you were born. Your brain/body gender dysphoria remains in existence post op. No matter how good the illusion is it is an illusion thus the first pregnant man.
    The ONLY way what you're saying is true is IF you are right that intersexuality does not play a part here. If the brain is female and the genitalia is male, I'm gonna side with those who say the individual is female. And the evidence is with me, not with you. It's not conclusive, but all the evidence points the direction I am saying.

    What have you offered other than repeating what you apparently believe to be self-evident?

  10. #210
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Yeah right and yet wonder of all wonders a teacher can leave school in the summer as a man and return in the fall as a woman. How does that happen???
    You'd have to give me considerably more sources to detail that allegation, since there have been more than once case of transexual teachers (one in California and one in New Jersey that I know of), and not once did those articles go into any detail about the psychological and medical prepping prior to implementing hormone therapies. Hormone therapies, as you know, are implemented for some months prior to surgery, and in the two cases I referenced we know only that the hormone therapies were started over the summer months, not that surgery had also been performed.

    BTW, the healing time for a surgery of that magnitude is about two months. My guess is that they started the hormone therapies one summer, and planned the surgeries for the next summer. But hey, if you have more in-depth information, please feel free to offer me a source.

    Just curious. Why do you care to the point of anger? And why did you carefully clip the last paragraph of my post in your quote without answering the question I posed in it?
    Last edited by DiAnna; 10-21-08 at 07:41 PM.

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