View Poll Results: I personally feel transgender individuals are...

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  • Mentally disturbed.

    39 39.00%
  • Slightly irregular.

    15 15.00%
  • Perfectly normal.

    21 21.00%
  • Progressive.

    1 1.00%
  • Self-Actualized.

    12 12.00%
  • Other (specify).

    12 12.00%
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Thread: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

  1. #161
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Which is exactly the rationale we were all fed about gays. Sorry, it was bogus then, its bogus now.
    No...gay is gay. Gay is liking your own gender. Gay is not wishing you were of the other gender.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    I would have to agree with this. There has to be a degree of mental instability going on that is being covered up simply because people, in their haste to please some weak politically correct ideal, has accepted this as "normal."
    Who ever made the claim that it was "normal?"
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Who ever made the claim that it was "normal?"
    Well it does seem that there is this push, even in this thread, to "normalize" it and treat the situation as if it isn't a profound mental defect.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Well it does seem that there is this push, even in this thread, to "normalize" it and treat the situation as if it isn't a profound mental defect.
    "Normalize" it? Get real. No one is promoting other people to be Transsexuals.

    The people who have been arguing with you over this are saying that Transsexuals shouldn't be discriminated against. Which by the way, you still haven't fully addressed.

    Not only that, you go off onto a different issue and started talking about the "pretend" disorder. Which you horribly distort the definition of the disorder with words like self mutilation.

    I won't lampoon you any further in this thread Jallman. You will be ignored.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  5. #165
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I don't know...it seems a very simple equation to me:

    Delusion: suffering from a false perception of reality.
    Penis and Testicles: Male Gender
    Vagina and ovaries: Female Gender

    When Penis and Testicles thinks it's female = delusion.
    When Vagina and Ovaries thinks it's male = delusion.

    Delusion is mental defect. I don't think surgery on the penis is really what it takes to alleviate a problem in the mind. But that's just my opinion.
    But the development of the child in uterus is based on a very balanced level of hormones and chemicals. If the wrong hormone is sent or not sent at the right time, different things can happen. Is it delusion? Or is it the reality of the chemical makeup of the individual. And if one can, through surgery, match their outside and their inside; should that be considered deviant or wrong? Reality is as the brain tells us it is, if something happened during development of the fetus which led later on to gender confusion or whatever; how is that not the reality for that individual? And what about hermaphrodites? What are they exactly?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  6. #166
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    I won't lampoon you any further in this thread Jallman. You will be ignored.
    Translation: you won't capitulate so I am going to tuck tail and run.

    Not surprised.

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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But the development of the child in uterus is based on a very balanced level of hormones and chemicals. If the wrong hormone is sent or not sent at the right time, different things can happen. Is it delusion? Or is it the reality of the chemical makeup of the individual. And if one can, through surgery, match their outside and their inside; should that be considered deviant or wrong? Reality is as the brain tells us it is, if something happened during development of the fetus which led later on to gender confusion or whatever; how is that not the reality for that individual? And what about hermaphrodites? What are they exactly?
    I'd say hermaphrodites are a grotesque anatomical anomaly that should be corrected later in life once the true sex of the subject has been determined.

    And I see what you are saying about hormone levels, etc. However, the end result is either a penis or a vagina and that is the sex of the child. It makes no sense to me to indulge gender make believe and mutilation of the genitalia in order to affect a reality that isn't real at all.

  8. #168
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    But there is proof that it does, in fact, improve their health, mood, and behavior.

    IJ TRANSGENDER - Gender Role Reversal among Postoperative Transsexuals
    But there are many who regret it. Also, an even bigger concern that I have is that especially for male to female reassignments there seems to be a general push to do them younger and younger.

    The hypothesis is that the younger it is done the more successful it will be with success measured by the "passing" rate for movement into the alternate gender. If sexual reassignment occurs prior to voice changing and facial hair growth in boys they are less noticeable as transsexual people. The better they are able to pass for the opposite sex the happier they are with their surgical outcome. Given those two things the theory is that it's wise to get the whole process started in the teenage years and this is happening more commonly worldwide.

    I have huge issues with that. I do understand that much of it may be my incomprehension of what they are suffering, what their dysphoria entails.
    However I know enough about teenagers to completely reject the notion that those are the years when "best" decisions are made.

    Also if post operative happiness is directly tied to how successfully one "passes" for the opposite sex then there's no question that the aim is to allow the fantasy in favor of the reality. Transsexuals often talk on their website of becoming a "real woman" or a "real man" when that's just not doable. If they don't begin the hormones at a fairly young age and undergo surgery fairly young it's quite likely they'll never pass socially as the opposite sex. In which case it's hard to tell if their continued depression is the result of society rejecting them or the result of them buying into the fantasy themselves only to have it come up short. There's also questions about their continued ability to enjoy sexual intercourse with females to males tending to be particularly dissatisfied and one wonders if the illusion was worth the cost of loss of sexual satisfaction.

    It's hard not to cling to the notion that they'd be better off forgetting the knife, foregoing the illusions, and learning to deal with the bodies they have.
    Last edited by talloulou; 10-21-08 at 04:35 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    But there are many who regret it. Also, an even bigger concern that I have is that especially for male to female reassignments there seems to be a general push to do them younger and younger.
    Well sure, there may be many who regret it. Precisely the 1-2% that regret it. But the vast majority, the +95% find the operation at least satisfactory. Still much better from where they started, imo.

    Again, I am only saying this to show you that this corrective surgery (while not being a "cure") is a way Transsexuals can resolve their problem. Also, I should add that it isn't the only means to solve their problem either.


    The hypothesis is that the younger it is done the more successful it will be with success measured by the "passing" rate for movement into the alternate gender. If sexual reassignment occurs prior to voice changing and facial hair growth in boys they are less noticeable as transsexual people. The better they are able to pass for the opposite sex the happier they are with their surgical outcome. Given those two things the theory is that it's wise to get the whole process started in the teenage years and this is happening more commonly worldwide.

    I have huge issues with that. I do understand that much of it may be my incomprehension of what they are suffering, what they're dysphoria entails.
    However I know enough about teenagers to completely reject the notion that those are the years when "best" decisions are made.
    I also share your concern because at that point, they are still children. I do have problems with doctors and psychologists who suggest parents to act quickly for "their children sake."

    Also if post operative happiness is directly tied to how successfully one "passes" for the opposite sex then there's no question that the aim is to allow the fantasy in favor of the reality.
    Happiness is also dependent on how they view themselves, just as much as how they want the public to perceive them. I find this true not only for Transsexuals, but also for people in general.

    Transsexuals often talk on their website of becoming a "real woman" or a "real man" when that's just not doable. If they don't begin the hormones at a fairly young age and undergo surgery fairly young it's quite likely they'll never pass socially as the opposite sex. In which case it's hard to tell if they're continued depression is the result of society rejecting them or the result of them buying into the fantasy themselves only to have it come up short. There's also questions about their continued ability to enjoy sexual intercourse with females to males tending to be particularly dissatisfied and one wonders if the illusion was worth the cost of loss of sexual satisfaction.

    It's hard not to cling to the notion that they'd be better off forgetting the knife, foregoing the illusions, and learning to deal with the bodies they have.
    And some take that route. But they aren't any better off than those who decided to go through surgery. The thing of it all is that each individual chooses their own course of action. The ones who chose surgery may as well be happy as those who did not choose surgery.
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Let the public school provide the basics, you as the parent can do the fine tuning.

  10. #170
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    Re: Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightdemon View Post
    Who ever made the claim that it was "normal?"
    I don't know. It appears that this is what people are wanting it to be. The argument is that they should be able to do what ever they like to their bodies. Isn't this an argument for what is and is not supposed to be normal?

    You see Boys Don't Cry? Hillary Swank was awarded the 1999 Academy Award for Best Actress. Hollywood seems to making the cry for normalcy.

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