Would You Celebrate If He/She Died?

I never start threads. 26 in my 2+ years here, with this only my second poll. However, I have noticed a trend here at DP that I do not understand and I thought a thread/poll discussing the generalities of this issue would help in clarifying the issue.

I have noticed that when a thread is started about the death of a public figure, predictably, someone will come in a make a celebratory post, expressing joy over the death. The Jesse Helms thread is the most recent example. I am not, nor was I ever, a fan of Jesse Helms. I, however, cannot conceive of the mindset required to celebrate his or any other public/political figure's death. Yet it is guaranteed to occur in every thread. It, also, happens in threads discussing a severe or terminal illness of a public figure. Ted Kennedy is a recent example.

Now, in the past, when I have commented on this issue in-thread, it has been pointed out to me that a constant "sorry to hear about that" is pointless. But, as I see it, that is not the only direction a thread like that could go. A debate about the pros and cons of the figure's legacy could be discussed. Comments about what the future holds for the office he/she holds/held or the issues he/she championed. But instead, there are those who prefer to delight in the person's death. So, since I have a hard time understanding this, and would like to know how others feel when a public figure dies that they DO NOT LIKE, I created this poll.

The question is:

IF A PUBLIC FIGURE THAT YOU DID NOT LIKE AND/OR WHOSE POLITICS OR POLITICAL POSITION YOU DID NOT AGREE WITH, DIED, WOULD YOU CELEBRATE AND WHY OR WHY NOT?

BTW, I made this poll public so there would be little or no poll stuffing.

How many people are actually genuinely joyful at the passing of a public figure?

Merely because someone believes the world is better off without them doesn't mean they are poping champagne. I didn't like Helms for his vocal support of the terrorist group RENAMO but that doesn't mean I'm celebrating his passing.

One other thought, as a preemptive strike. This is NOT a partisan issue. I have seen both liberals and conservatives on both sides of the coin of this question. So, anyone who says "typical liberal" or "typical conservative" is categorically wrong, fooling themselves, and behaving partisanly biased themselves.

No, I would not celebrate the death of any public figure. No matter how despicable a person is in life, their death marks the end of any chance of redemption. That is nothing to celebrate.

Here's a question:

Why is it acceptable to celebrate the death of supporters of Bin Laden's group who did not actually kill anyone but it is not acceptable to celebrate the death of strong vocal supporters of terrorists groups who fought the US's ideological enemies?

jallman said:

No, I would not celebrate the death of any public figure. No matter how despicable a person is in life, their death marks the end of any chance of redemption. That is nothing to celebrate.

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So you would not cheer the execution of Bin Laden?

I can't celebrate over the passing of anyone. ok... scratch that for horrible child rapists

But back to what I was saying.

I am sure many would say no when u phrase yr ? like the above, CC, but let's see how many would say yes, they will celebrate to :

1) Saddam Hussein dying
2) Osama Bin Laden dying
3) Hitler's death

I believe many would skew their answers to say yes.

So I think it does depend on who is the person and how much the person is hated...

For myself, yes I think Saddam deserved death many times over for his killing so many ppl, not even letting his own sons-in-law off.. can u imagine somebody so vicious they can't let their own family off? Some animals have more familial instincts btw... but when I saw the photo of Saddam in his underwear and thought, "This is just a sad, old man stripped of his power.... he just looks old." I find it hard to hate somebody like that.

Sure I hated Saddam, but after seeing that picture, much of that hatred dispersed. I didn't celebrate at his death. For Hitler, sure he deserved death too. But he had to chicken out and shoot his dog and gf and himself when he knew the Russians were going to do to him what his troops did to Russia. I doubt I will celebrate over Bin Laden's passing as well.

I am not conservative, (I am Libertarian) but I am sad at Helms' passing, he seems a good and decent guy who does not change his stand on certain topics, no matter what.

Trinity said:

I am sure many would say no when u phrase yr ? like the above, CC, but let's see how many would say yes, they will celebrate to :

1) Saddam Hussein dying
2) Osama Bin Laden dying
3) Hitler's death

I believe many would skew their answers to say yes.

So I think it does depend on who is the person and how much the person is hated...

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I think it would also depend on whether you were from a group that suffered at the hands of the figure too.

The reaction of the jews who suffered directly in 1945 to the news of Hitler's death will be different to our reaction 60 years later. I think the same would go for an MDC supporter beaten half to death hearing of the death of Robert Mugabe (when it happens) in comparison to our views sitting in safety thousands of miles away and untouched by his brutality.

It's not a poll question I could answer with any meaning because the best people to ask would be those who suffered directly or whose lives where (in the case of Western Politicians) directly affected by the public figure. I'm in a safe cocooned world and my answer would be pointless.

I think it mostly depends on that particular person and their biography. Contributing facets like our perception, the time of death, and its circumstance could also be determining factors. I've never wished for or celebrated the passing of any Western leader or politician. Public figures (a far ranging term) on the international or historical stage are another matter entirely.

Yes, I would, and I do, and I don't even flinch.

We'll start with the patriarch of the scumbag family.

Joe Kennedy: Bootlegger, stock swindler, infidelity. Lobotomized his daughter

Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Straight Dope: What is the true source of the Kennedy family's wealth?

Rosemary Kennedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not much on Joe Jr. but I point out a few things that deserve special attention. A destroyer named after a junior grade officer, then retired as a museum. Plus the fact that his dad was devastated, Joe Jr. was supposed to be the first President from the clan.

Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John F. Kennedy: Dereliction of duty, infidelity.

He graduated cum laude from Harvard with a degree in international affairs in June 1940

International affairs? Let's look at the disasters that occured under his watch.

He gets his PT boat cut in half during a failed nighttime raid. His response:

During his presidency, Kennedy privately admitted to friends that he didn't feel that he deserved the medals he had received, because the PT-109 incident had been the result of a botched military operation that had cost the lives of two members of his crew. When later asked by a reporter how he became a war hero, Kennedy (known for a sense of humor) joked: "It was involuntary. They sank my boat."

He injured his already "troublesome" back, and supposedly "rescues" one of the crew members he didn't get killed. Most people get relieved of command, he emerges a "War Hero".

His dee-ploe-muh-cee skills net us:

The Berlin Wall, The Bay of Pigs, The Cuban Missile Crisis, the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem, the escalation of Vietnam (Kennedy increased the number of U.S. military in Vietnam from 800 to 16,300)

Backed a coup against Iraq. Hmmm, oil companies already in place too.

In 1963, the Kennedy administration backed a coup against the government of Iraq headed by General Abdel Karim Kassem, who five years earlier had deposed the Western-allied Iraqi monarchy. The CIA helped the new Baath Party government led by Abdul Salam Arif in ridding the country of suspected leftists and Communists. In a Baathist bloodbath, the government used lists of suspected Communists and other leftists provided by the CIA, to systematically murder untold numbers of Iraq's educated elite — killings in which Saddam Hussein himself is said to have participated. The victims included hundreds of doctors, teachers, technicians, lawyers and other professionals as well as military and political figures. According to an op-ed in the New York Times, the U.S. sent arms to the new regime, weapons later used against the same Kurdish insurgents the U.S. supported against Kassem and then abandoned. American and UK oil and other interests, including Mobil, Bechtel and British Petroleum, were conducting business in Iraq.

The blunders by this idiot are too numerous to list here. I can't figure out why so many people hold this dirtbag in such high regard.

Robert Kennedy: Election rigging, infidelity.

Helped get his brother elected by buying votes through organised labor unions. He later turned on the very unions that got JFK elected.

Kennedy was relentless in his pursuit of Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa, resulting from widespread knowledge of Hoffa's corruption in financial and electoral actions, both personally and organizationally.

Kennedy was relied upon as both the President's primary source of administrative information and as a general counsel with whom trust was implicit, given the familial ties of the two men.

President Kennedy once remarked on his brother that, "If I want something done and done immediately I rely on the Attorney General. He is very much the doer in this administration, and has an organizational gift I have rarely if ever seen surpassed."

Yet Robert Kennedy believed strongly in the separation of powers and thus often chose not to comment on matters of policy not relating to his remit or to forward the enquiry of the President to an officer of the administration better suited to offer counsel.

Nice.

Ted Kennedy: Murderer, cheat, infidelity

Dirtbag extraordinaire.

Kennedy earned C grades at the private Milton Academy, but was admitted to Harvard as a "legacy" -- his father and older brothers had attended there, so the younger and dimmer Kennedy's admission was virtually assured.

While attending, he was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him.

He sits on the Senates Ethics Commitee.

And then his stellar service career:

While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England, pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging. Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged.

Ted Kennedy

Need we visit Chappaquiddick? I'll link it for those who don't know the details.

Chappaquiddick incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Michael Skakel: Murderer

Murdered Martha Moxley in 1975, was convicted in 2002, even though the murder weapon was in the attic of the house he lived in at the time of the murder. Martha was his neighbor. His aunt, Ethel is Bobby Kenndy's widow.

Michael Skakel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William Kennedy Smith: Rapist

Aquitted of rape (naturally, it occured at the Kennedy Compound in Palm Beach, can't have that now, can we?)

Smith is the second of four children of Stephen Edward Smith and Jean Kennedy Smith. Smith's mother is a daughter of Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr. and Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy, so Smith is the nephew of President John F. Kennedy, Senator Robert F. Kennedy, and Senator Ted Kennedy.

William Kennedy Smith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice family huh. I didn't even list all the drug addicts or alcoholics in the family.

That would be pretty much the majority of the clan. Yes, truly the first family of American politics.

I like to think of them as the First Manson Family of American Politics.

Depends what you mean by "celebrate". If you mean throwing a party and dancing all night long, then no, that's not my thing.

I have, however, thought many times "Good riddance, sucks for your family, but the world certainly won't miss your sorry ass" when someone particularly despicable passed away. I know that people aren't "evil" 100% of the time and that everyone has redeeming qualities, but at the end of the day, when all is said and done, if you've done more harm than good in your life, there's no reason why I should forget all the bad stuff just because you're dead.

GottaHurt said:

We'll start with the patriarch of the scumbag family.

Joe Kennedy: Bootlegger, stock swindler, infidelity. Lobotomized his daughter

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<<< Truly horrible. Imagine lobotomizing yr own daughter. Such an inhuman act to look presentable. Doing that to yr family for face. (For somebody like me who even opposes to cruelty done to animals like removing claws of cats and dogs [just so that yr furniture looks good????], capping the teeth of dogs and removing their vocal cords, this really tops the list of cruelty.) Really inhuman. No wonder they said the whole family is cursed with the exception of her.

obvious Child said:

So you would not cheer the execution of Bin Laden?

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I would say, "good riddance", but no celebration. I'd be happy if he got caught, but to see him die, not a happy thing. When I saw Saddam get hanged I thought, "how barbaric". We shouldn't be like they were, we should be better than that.

Bin Laden is probably a very tortured man I'd think, or he's in denial, but whatever he is, he is.

Yes.

Not over people I merely disagree with, however. Not over people whose policies I consider disastrous, or people whose ideas are monumentally stupid and inexplicably popular. Not over my enemies or the enemies of my country... unless their deaths are part of a military victory on our part.

But I would quietly celebrate the deaths of people whose lives and legacies I consider distasteful. People who cheapen political dialogue with hate speech and empty rhetoric. People who cannot understand the difference between dissent and treason.

And, of course, I'll happily and vocally celebrate the deaths of anyone I or my military personally battles and triumphs over-- provided they were legitimate opponents. Once they're captured and subjected to a show "trial", their deaths mean nothing to me... but I am all too happy to celebrate their initial capture, or their death in resisting such.

Depends what you mean by 'celebrate'. Are we talking Palestinian celebrating? Running to the streets and dancing? No. Are we talking about being glad one more ahole has died? Yes. But I don't think I'd throw a party.

Marilyn Monroe said:

I would say, "good riddance", but no celebration. I'd be happy if he got caught, but to see him die, not a happy thing. When I saw Saddam get hanged I thought, "how barbaric". We shouldn't be like they were, we should be better than that.

Bin Laden is probably a very tortured man I'd think, or he's in denial, but whatever he is, he is.

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Well to be fair, "we" didn't hang him. His own people did that.

I doubt I'll ever really celebrate a death, but in cases like Saddam Husseins hanging, or Jeffery Dahmers fate inside prison walls, I do get a good feeling inside my gut that justice has been served. I certainley would not celebrate the death of people that I have simple idealogical differences from though. I would not celebrate the death of say Pat Robertson, or Rev. Jeremiah Wright both of whom are two very outspoken religious leaders I vehemently disagree with.

I don't see how one can deny that there are certain leaders whose deaths can bring about an immediate cessation in direct human suffering. If we had our own Mugabe, for example, and he were to drop dead of an aneurism, I would happily and vocally express that the world was better off for it. However, if the politician in question was just an all around dick? I don't feel any regret, per se, that he died, but I hardly think it merits celebration either. So when Helms died, I didn't feel any burning desire to go say something wonderful in his honor at his wake, but glee was tied with that emotion in last place too -- total apathy.

Right off the top of my head, a few people I enthusiastically said "good riddance to bad rubbish" to were Pol Pot, Yassir Arafat, Augusto Pinochet and Saddam Hussein. I don't really get a kick out of the manner of their deaths, so executions don't really do anything for me.

I personally would never celebrate nor make negative comment about the passing of almost anyone. I think it shows disrespect to his/her family a lack of compassion to the point of being inhumane. I to disagree with many of the positions Farwell and Helms took. But I try to look at the good that these men did in there lifes. I must say that I do face a quandary pertaining to the inevitable death of someone like Osama bin Laden.

The idea of celebrating death brings to mind the ugliness of Palestinians dancing in the streets on 911.

The biggest bungholes on earth must be the ones glad one more bunghole has died.

Go out and vote for a neocommie, get drunk, smoke pot, run up a deficit, burn corn, pass some economic sanctions at will, never finish a lukewarm "liberal" arts of war, have promiscuous unprotected sex in the wrong hole in a fruit loop of fluid transfer of possible disease, and abort some babies in his honor.

IMO, I think there's a pretty distinct line between the people who it's appropriate to celebrate the death of and those who it's not. I have no problem being pleased with the death of anyone:

1) Actively involved in the functions of a terrorist group
2) Who has murdered/raped anyone
3) Who took up arms or led others to take up arms against the US in a war setting

Pretty much everyone else gets a pass from me on this count. I might not like them and might think they're scumbags, but I'm not hoping for them to die.

is it just me or are a few people voting no, yet making exceptions in their posts

lets be honest people

there are very few people whose death i would be happy about
but having but one required me to vote yes

I cheered saddams death, wish it had been done in the hole they found him
i would have cheered the death of Hitler if i was alive
i will cheer the death of Kim Jong Il
and i will not use clarifierers to make myself feel better

DeeJayH said:

is it just me or are a few people voting no, yet making exceptions in their posts

lets be honest people

there are very few people whose death i would be happy about
but having but one required me to vote yes

I cheered saddams death, wish it had been done in the hole they found him
i would have cheered the death of Hitler if i was alive
i will cheer the death of Kim Jong Il
and i will not use clarifierers to make myself feel better

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I'd rather see people get theirs while they are still alive.

I'd agree with the Hitler deal for sure, but if I had to see it on tape, don't know.

After Saddam was captured he still may have had hope he was going to live, but eventually that hope had to fade. Somehow that's where I might feel glad, but even that just seems mean to me. I didn't like seeing that Saddam tape. He was still a human being, a very bad human being, but still he had a life. I think it's better to stay somewhat neutral unless it's a family member that got hurt by this person, then I might actually go out and have a beer. :mrgreen: Contradictory?, yepper!

I think you can basically feel something is wrong, but occasionally make exceptions. Doesn't have to be black and white all the time. Black and white is for people that are too stiff.

I don't see the sense in ignoring the negative when someone passes. If someone preached hate and oppression, I won't ignore it. I don't know about "celebrating" their death. Sure, I am pleased when a racist dies. That doesn't mean I throw a party or do a happy dance. I don't protest funerals. I don't make sure the family hears my opinion. I started the Helms thread and I pointed out some of the things he said in his life. He may have been a gentleman but he was a bigot. If not ignoring the bad things tramples on some people's sensibilities, I don't apologize.

I have to assume by "public figures" you mean elected officials. People rejoiced at Dahmer's death. The same thing goes for Gacy, McVeigh, and will for Manson. I will never miss McCarthy, Thurmond, or Helms. If they wanted a decent legacy they should have lived their life in a manner that deserved a decent legacy. In fact, I find it rediculous that anyone would be upset at pointing out a person pointing out negatives about the deceased person. It's a case of shooting the messenger. If you don't want it pointed out that you were a racist when you die, don't be a racist. Personal responsibility and all that.

I have said it many times, if people lived their life like it was going to be on the six o'clock news and gave the respect to the living that they give to the dead, the world would be a better place.

Yes, I love dancing on the graves of bullies, whomever they may be.

obvious Child said:

So you would not cheer the execution of Bin Laden?

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I did not cheer the death of Sadam and I would not "cheer" the death of Bin Laden. That's not to say I wouldn't quietly and humbly say to myself that the world just got safer, but to cheer would be...sordid.