Which country is it?

WI Crippler · 03-12-08, 04:44 PM

Per a discussion with Iriemon, he asserts that the Italians had always been the butt of jokes, referring to them as traditionally surrendering. And that this view changed when the French refused to go to war with us in Iraq.

I assert that in fact the French have always been the butt of the "surrender" jokes and stereotypes, including the times preceding Iraq.

What say ye??

Adrian · 03-12-08, 04:45 PM

And if there's one thing that is not at all over used, and is always hilarious no matter how many times it's said, it's a French surrender joke.

partier9 · 03-12-08, 04:58 PM

Italy had the roman empire, france will never best that.

partier9 · 03-12-08, 05:00 PM

France is made fun of its military because it is true. Agincourt anyone

Brief History of France at War
I posted this before.

Quote:

Gallic Wars - Lost
In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War - Mostly lost
Saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

Italian Wars - Lost
France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion
France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years War
France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution - Tied
Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War - Tied

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War - Lost...
but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

War of the Spanish Succession - Lost
The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

American Revolution
In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution - Won
Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars - Lost
Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War - Lost
Germany first plays the role of drunk frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

World War I - Tied...
and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States.

World War II - Lost
Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina - Lost
French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.

Algerian Rebellion - Lost
Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare: "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Esquimaux.

1991 Gulf War - Won
Refer to Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

War on Terrorism - France
Keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
FINAL TALLY: Won = 3; Lost = 10; Tied = 5.

Now, do we REALLY want them on our side

Hatuey · 03-12-08, 05:09 PM

Well to be fair....they did win....and lose the french revolution.....

Seriously....French surrender jokes are never out of fashion.....

Example : Britney lost her kids and France surrendered.

Redfactor · 03-12-08, 05:15 PM

Oh comon guys... they have a pretty elite group in the French Foreign Legion.

... oh wait the guys in the legion aren't French.

Yup, French military sucks.

Iriemon · 03-12-08, 05:19 PM

For the record, the OP mistates my contention. My contention was that jokes about poor fighters had traditionally been made about the Italians, and ranking on the French about their fighting ability only came into fashion in recent years as a result of neocons getting their panties in a knot about France because France was completely right about Iraq and the neocons were completely wrong.

Anyone interested can read my posts in this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/lighte...ce-like-2.html

Neocons -- ya'll have fun!

Gipper · 03-12-08, 05:20 PM

Going to war without France is like going hunting without your accordion.

partier9 · 03-12-08, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

For the record, the OP mistates my contention. My contention was that jokes about poor fighters had traditionally been made about the Italians, and ranking on the French about their fighting ability only came into fashion in recent years as a result of neocons getting their panties in a knot about France because France was completely right about Iraq and the neocons were completely wrong.

Anyone interested can read my posts in this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/lighte...ce-like-2.html

Neocons -- ya'll have fun!

You got that wrong people have been making fun of the french way before iraq. Like the english. For the passed thousand years. Italy had the roman empire. And they had the catholic church when thats all there was.

Slainte · 03-12-08, 05:24 PM

Q: Why was a Frenchman with a white flag running behind the Italian?
A :The Frenchman was trying to surrender, but the Italian kept retreating.

Seriously though, people who think the French are weak generally don't know history. Historically the French were always the largest and most powerful homogeneous group in Europe. They had about a quarter of Europes population up untill 1800 I think. That's why we had the concert of Europe and basically started international alliances, without all the other European countries helping each other the French would have destroyed us.

Then something weird happened; birth rates in France collapsed while they boomed in the UK, Germany and Russia. In 1919 there were someting like 75 million German speakers in Europe and 40 million French speakers. Those are pretty daunting odds if you're a Frenchman, people seem to think that in world war 1 and 2 the countries were pretty evenly matched, they weren't really.