Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

SDET said:

That has B.S. written all over it. Even a modicum of critical thinking would tell you it's obviously fake.

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It is not. Nazi Swastikas always go to the right...

Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Certainly they are far more so than the losers. Had Trump fans acted like this in the wake of his loss, the MSM would be apoplectic.

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I compare the dem leadership and media this election and republican leadership and media in 2008. We have the pres and all kinds of dem politicians offering to work with him and wishing him success. The main stream media has mostly been talking respectfully about what trump voters wanted by voting for trump. What they wanted as their message. In 2008 we had "I hope he fails" and "our biggest goal is to make home a one term president" etc. and these weren't isolated incidents.

With the exception of the idiots rioting in the streets which is due to them being younger and immature voters it appears as well as the rhetoric that trump used throughout the campaign, 2008 was worse especially from the leadership.

Edit: but I do agree that republicans would be bashed a bit harder if riots like this occurred after a trump loss. Probably because they should have expected the loss since that's what everyone was saying. And since Hillary was not nearly as decisive as trump. That makes a big difference.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

roughdraft274 said:

I compare the dem leadership and media this election and republican leadership and media in 2008. We have the pres and all kinds of dem politicians offering to work with him and wishing him success. The main stream media has mostly been talking respectfully about what trump voters wanted by voting for trump. What they wanted as their message. In 2008 we had "I hope he fails" and "our biggest goal is to make home a one term president" etc. and these weren't isolated incidents.

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Huh. Well that's interesting. Guess I'll wander on over to Slate to see how the liberal intelligentsia is handling.....


oh.





Maybe you are right, and unlike 2008, that kind of reaction is isolated, and....


oh...


One Third of Clinton Supporters Say Trump's Election Is Not Legitimate

With the exception of the idiots rioting in the streets...

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Oh. So with the exception of the people rioting in the streets, the left is handling this well? :lol:

Sure. Except for the atrocious ways in which the left is reacting, the left is actually handling this quite well.

it appears as well as the rhetoric that trump used throughout the campaign, 2008 was worse especially from the leadership.

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Trump had awful rhetoric. It was abusive, and degrading. As far as I'm aware, however, he never openly urged his supporters to punish their racial enemies, though I can easily imagine the pea-soup-spewing, head-spinning fit that liberals in the media would have gone into if he had.

I think, respectfully, that you (like all of us) have a tendency to skip past or explain away abuses on your own side, while seizing on the abuses of the other. Watching "I Won" because "Elections Have Consequences" President "Pen And Phone" lecture Trump about the need to compromise was surreal.

Edit: but I do agree that republicans would be bashed a bit harder if riots like this occurred after a trump loss. Probably because they should have expected the loss since that's what everyone was saying.

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Like in 2012, when Republicans thought Romney would win? Yes, I remember the Mormon riots well. Some of the men un-tucked their shirts, even.

Beaudreaux said:

To paraphrase Mark Twain - The reports of the death of civility after Trumps election are greatly exaggerated.

In many of these type instances, especially racial slurs painted on buildings and so on, it has historically been found that the perpetrators were not who was assumed to be the "obvious" culprit.

As for who is acting badly, from what I've seen on ALL the TV news casts, it hasn't been Trump supporters.

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I assume, then, that you haven't watched TV for the better part of a month.

Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Huh. Well that's interesting. Guess I'll wander on over to Slate to see how the liberal intelligentsia is handling.....


oh.


View attachment 67210005


Maybe you are right, and unlike 2008, that kind of reaction is isolated, and....


oh...


One Third of Clinton Supporters Say Trump's Election Is Not Legitimate






Oh. So with the exception of the people rioting in the streets, the left is handling this well? :lol:

Sure. Except for the atrocious ways in which the left is reacting, the left is actually handling this quite well.





Trump had awful rhetoric. It was abusive, and degrading. As far as I'm aware, however, he never openly urged his supporters to punish their racial enemies, though I can easily imagine the pea-soup-spewing, head-spinning fit that liberals in the media would have gone into if he had.

I think, respectfully, that you (like all of us) have a tendency to skip past or explain away abuses on your own side, while seizing on the abuses of the other. Watching "I Won" because "Elections Have Consequences" President "Pen And Phone" lecture Trump about the need to compromise was surreal.





Like in 2012, when Republicans thought Romney would win? Yes, I remember the Mormon riots well. Some of the men un-tucked their shirts, even.

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You think rioters in response to Trump's election are reflective of liberals in general ???

I'm blown away by how disgustingly false that is.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Huh. Well that's interesting. Guess I'll wander on over to Slate to see how the liberal intelligentsia is handling.....


oh.


View attachment 67210005


Maybe you are right, and unlike 2008, that kind of reaction is isolated, and....


oh...


One Third of Clinton Supporters Say Trump's Election Is Not Legitimate






Oh. So with the exception of the people rioting in the streets, the left is handling this well? :lol:

Sure. Except for the atrocious ways in which the left is reacting, the left is actually handling this quite well.





Trump had awful rhetoric. It was abusive, and degrading. As far as I'm aware, however, he never openly urged his supporters to punish their racial enemies, though I can easily imagine the pea-soup-spewing, head-spinning fit that liberals in the media would have gone into if he had.

I think, respectfully, that you (like all of us) have a tendency to skip past or explain away abuses on your own side, while seizing on the abuses of the other. Watching "I Won" because "Elections Have Consequences" President "Pen And Phone" lecture Trump about the need to compromise was surreal.





Like in 2012, when Republicans thought Romney would win? Yes, I remember the Mormon riots well. Some of the men un-tucked their shirts, even.

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You made some ok points. Then you likened trumps rhetoric to that clip of Obama. That's ridiculous and beyond absurd.

And the poll? I can go find you a poll right now showing that most republicans still think obama wasn't born in the US. So a poll reflecting a third of democrats are still angry doesn't really even compare in my honest opinion.

I might have some blind spots. But you have a few parts in your post that are just so far from a fair comparison.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

roughdraft274 said:

You made some ok points. Then you likened trumps rhetoric to that clip of Obama. That's ridiculous and beyond absurd.

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Because Trump uses 3rd grade English, while Obama spouts divisive rhetoric smoothly? Or because you are ideologically predisposed to excuse his speech, but jump on Trump's.

Did Trump ever tell his Whites to go Punish Their Enemies? Certainly Trump has accused people of acting stupidly, and unwisely inserted himself into racial controversy, but I can't recall any instance of him being that blatant about the idea that a race has racial enemies here in America.

And the poll? I can go find you a poll right now showing that most republicans still think obama wasn't born in the US.

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Still? HAH. Now that would be funny. I remember some polls saying that from the height of the controversy, and I remember responding to it with the polls indicating that a majority of Democrats were 9/11 Truthers.

So a poll reflecting a third of democrats are still angry doesn't really even compare in my honest opinion.

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Angry =/= Think The Election Was Illegitimate. Especially after all the caterwauling after Trump went off on his idiotic "rigged" tangent, the Left owns that.

I might have some blind spots. But you have a few parts in your post that are just so far from a fair comparison.

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I don't deny I absolutely can. But the idea that Obama hasn't been an intensely divisive President and the leader of the Smug Style in liberal politics is....

well, it's a refreshing reminder that people really do live in different information bubbles

Outside of DebatePolitics?

Yes.

Dragonfly said:

Seeing reports of racist graffiti. This one is making the rounds on Facebook:

Reports of threats to women wearing hijabs.
Reports of kids being taunted that they'll be deported.

Edit to add link: Reports of racist graffiti, hate crimes post-election - CNN.com

So yes - plenty of "losers" are behaving quite badly.
Some are for sure behaving horrendously. Hypocritically.

How are those who "won" acting? Are they being poor winners?

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I've seen a lot of gloating, which isn't classy or mature. As far as the examples? I don't believe most of them are legitimate. We already had a threat started where a college Muslim girl claimed to have her hijab ripped off, car keys stolen, and then her car stolen. Later she admitted to the police that the report was fake. Everything is fake these days.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Because Trump uses 3rd grade English, while Obama spouts divisive rhetoric smoothly?

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First off, he didn't use the words "racial enemies". So lets not just make **** up here.
The clip of Obama is nothing compared to Trump telling people to knock the crap out of protesters. We can discuss other things but if we can't agree that one of these is much different than the other then theres nothing left to discuss. Obama had a bad choice of words while making the point that Latinos need to vote rather than sit out the election. I mean look at the quote:

If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies, and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us' -- if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election -- then I think it's going to be harder. And that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2nd.

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He's strictly talking about voting. He shouldn't have used he words punish or enemy, but you're nit picking at this point. As opposed to Trump literally telling people to beat people up. He's not using a poor choice of words. It's not cause he speaks at a third grade level. Even if he had said "If someone starts protesting please give them a proper thumping, I'll even pay any legal bills that may arrise due to this altercation". Nope, he can say it any way he wants, it's still SO different.

You can pretend that this is just me having a bias against people that talk plainly or being a smug liberal asshole but it's not. These can't be compared in any meaningful way.

Absentglare said:

I assume, then, that you haven't watched TV for the better part of a month.

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How about post a YouTube video showing Trump supporters rioting en masse. There have been about a dozen or so assholes that at Trump rallies that acted like assholes, mostly toward people acting like assholes first (but not always). However, tens of thousands of anti-Trump, anti-Constitution, anti-Peaceful change of power have been disrupting the lives of hundreds of thousands of people by blocking roads and , rioting in the streets, setting cars and buildings on fire, calling for physical harm to come to Trump, and of course, overturning a legal and peaceful election by force and/or subterfuge which is treason.

So yeah, I've been watching TV, and reading newspapers, and watching the undermining of the American rule of law.

After thinking about it further, I should have just said in response: nothing.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

roughdraft274 said:

First off, he didn't use the words "racial enemies". So lets not just make **** up here.

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Fair enough. He said that "Latinos" need to punish their enemies. So he was saying that they had (and needed to punish) their ethnic enemies.

That's much better.

So, what happens when Trump goes out and tells white people they need to punish their enemies? Everyone will be totes cool with it, because that's not a racist line at all, right?

He's strictly talking about voting. He shouldn't have used he words punish or enemy, but you're nit picking at this point.

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No, I'm pointing out a reality - Obama has been more polished, but just as divisive as Trump. Trump's team has said some awful things about ethnic groups who didn't (net) vote for him - but the Obama Administration actually decided not to extend Civil Rights Protection to them. Trump hasn't picked his AG yet, but you can bet your boots that if whoever he picks says, in a discussion of race-based voter-intimidation, that he divides the world between "My People" and "the people about whom I do not care if they are threatened", that the media will go ballistic in a way that they didn't for Holder.

Trump has inserted himself crudely and inartfully into racial dialogue, sure. So did the Obama administration - repeatedly. Trump has attacked hyperbolic strawmen in a manner that infuriates his opposition. So did Obama - repeatedly. Heck, when Republicans passed the Ryan Budget, and Obama invited them to his Response Speech, he made them think that he was going to propose a Grand Bargain, so the leadership would come - and then he spent an hour accusing them, on live national television, so they couldn't react without looking boorish, of wanting to kill disabled children and everyone's grandmother. FFS.

What do you think the reaction will be if the Trump DOJ starts actively intervening in local law enforcement decisions in order to make sure that White People are being treated well? Do you think it will be similar to their treatment of that activity by the Obama administration?

As opposed to Trump literally telling people to beat people up

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Yup - and if you were here, you'll know that I called him on it when he did so.

Just as I thought that, when Obama told his supporters to get in other people's faces, bring knives to gunfights, and encouraged them to get in "brawls", that was wrong.

He's not using a poor choice of words

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That's convenient. Everything your guy says is just a "poor choice of words", everything the other guy says Must Be Taken Literally And In It's Worst Possible Connotation.

Interestingly - that's the exact same defense that the Trump folks use: that he shouldn't be taken literally, that it was just a poor choice of words, etc.

You can pretend that this is just me having a bias against people that talk plainly or being a smug liberal asshole but it's not.

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I don't. I think its' because you seek out ways to excuse the rhetoric of those whose purposes you approve of, while finding the rhetoric of those whose purposes you disapprove of jarring. Obama is more sophisticated, smooth, and says infuriatingly divisive things in a less harsh way :shrug:


Anywho, back on thread: We are now officially about to enter our second week of the leftist temper tantrum over losing an election. At least those involved have finally adopted diaper pins as their symbol to let everyone know that they really are a bunch of crying babies.

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Fair enough. He said that "Latinos" need to punish their enemies. So he was saying that they had (and needed to punish) their ethnic enemies.

That's much better.

So, what happens when Trump goes out and tells white people they need to punish their enemies? Everyone will be totes cool with it, because that's not a racist line at all, right?




No, I'm pointing out a reality - Obama has been more polished, but just as divisive as Trump. Trump's team has said some awful things about ethnic groups who didn't (net) vote for him - but the Obama Administration actually decided not to extend Civil Rights Protection to them. Trump hasn't picked his AG yet, but you can bet your boots that if whoever he picks says, in a discussion of race-based voter-intimidation, that he divides the world between "My People" and "the people about whom I do not care if they are threatened", that the media will go ballistic in a way that they didn't for Holder.

Trump has inserted himself crudely and inartfully into racial dialogue, sure. So did the Obama administration - repeatedly. Trump has attacked hyperbolic strawmen in a manner that infuriates his opposition. So did Obama - repeatedly. Heck, when Republicans passed the Ryan Budget, and Obama invited them to his Response Speech, he made them think that he was going to propose a Grand Bargain, so the leadership would come - and then he spent an hour accusing them, on live national television, so they couldn't react without looking boorish, of wanting to kill disabled children and everyone's grandmother. FFS.

What do you think the reaction will be if the Trump DOJ starts actively intervening in local law enforcement decisions in order to make sure that White People are being treated well? Do you think it will be similar to their treatment of that activity by the Obama administration?



Yup - and if you were here, you'll know that I called him on it when he did so.

Just as I thought that, when Obama told his supporters to get in other people's faces, bring knives to gunfights, and encouraged them to get in "brawls", that was wrong.



That's convenient. Everything your guy says is just a "poor choice of words", everything the other guy says Must Be Taken Literally And In It's Worst Possible Connotation.

Interestingly - that's the exact same defense that the Trump folks use: that he shouldn't be taken literally, that it was just a poor choice of words, etc.



I don't. I think its' because you seek out ways to excuse the rhetoric of those whose purposes you approve of, while finding the rhetoric of those whose purposes you disapprove of jarring. Obama is more sophisticated, smooth, and says infuriatingly divisive things in a less harsh way :shrug:


Anywho, back on thread: We are now officially about to enter our second week of the leftist temper tantrum over losing an election. At least those involved have finally adopted diaper pins as their symbol to let everyone know that they really are a bunch of crying babies.

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And again you completely ignore all kinds of context. He specifically said he was referring to voting both before and after his comment. So this is very clearly different then in the middle of a rally talking about knocking the crap out of protesters. And he isn't referring to ethnic enemies he's clearly referring to people that disagree with policies that would help the Latino community or policies that they think would help the Latino community. You can conflate the two all you want it's pure bull**** though. I know you don't like what I'm saying because you think that I'm just excusing one comment and not the other because he's talking differently, but it's not that he's talking differently he saying something completely different.

Dragonfly said:

Seeing reports of racist graffiti. This one is making the rounds on Facebook:

Reports of threats to women wearing hijabs.
Reports of kids being taunted that they'll be deported.

Edit to add link: Reports of racist graffiti, hate crimes post-election - CNN.com

So yes - plenty of "losers" are behaving quite badly.
Some are for sure behaving horrendously. Hypocritically.

How are those who "won" acting? Are they being poor winners?

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The only winners are the Washington establishment and Wall Street. The American people lost (again). Some just don't know it yet.

Dragonfly said:

Seeing reports of racist graffiti. This one is making the rounds on Facebook:

Reports of threats to women wearing hijabs.
Reports of kids being taunted that they'll be deported.

Edit to add link: Reports of racist graffiti, hate crimes post-election - CNN.com

So yes - plenty of "losers" are behaving quite badly.
Some are for sure behaving horrendously. Hypocritically.

How are those who "won" acting? Are they being poor winners?

Click to expand...

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

roughdraft274 said:

And again you completely ignore all kinds of context. He specifically said he was referring to voting both before and after his comment. So this is very clearly different then in the middle of a rally talking about knocking the crap out of protesters. And he isn't referring to ethnic enemies he's clearly referring to people that disagree with policies that would help the Latino community or policies that they think would help the Latino community. You can conflate the two all you want it's pure bull**** though. I know you don't like what I'm saying because you think that I'm just excusing one comment and not the other because he's talking differently, but it's not that he's talking differently he saying something completely different.

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Ah. We've gotten to the block-quote-so-we-can-ignore certain sections.

Sure. Leftists are responding really well and maturely to the election loss, so long as you don't count the ones who aren't, and Obama wasn't a divisive President, so long as you agree with what he said, ignore what he did, and give him the benefit of the doubt for things he "put badly".

Also worth noting - Trump has no racist supporters whatsoever so long as you don't count the ones who are, and every car I drive is a Maserati, except for the ones I actually own and drive.

Dragonfly said:

Seeing reports of racist graffiti. This one is making the rounds on Facebook:

Reports of threats to women wearing hijabs.
Reports of kids being taunted that they'll be deported.

Edit to add link: Reports of racist graffiti, hate crimes post-election - CNN.com

So yes - plenty of "losers" are behaving quite badly.
Some are for sure behaving horrendously. Hypocritically.

How are those who "won" acting? Are they being poor winners?

Click to expand...

A Hell of a lot of these supposed "hate crimes" were later revealed to be hoaxes, sometimes explicitly perpetrated by angry Leftists either making up stories, or painting the graffiti themselves, in order to try and make Trump supporters look bad.

As far as the actual Neo-Nazi and KKK types? Who cares what they think or do? They're probably the smallest, most ABSOLUTE fringe minority in American politics today. They're basically irrelevant.

Ignore them, and starve of them of the attention they crave, and they'll crawl back in their holes where they belong.

Fishking said:

I've seen a lot of gloating, which isn't classy or mature. As far as the examples? I don't believe most of them are legitimate. We already had a threat started where a college Muslim girl claimed to have her hijab ripped off, car keys stolen, and then her car stolen. Later she admitted to the police that the report was fake. Everything is fake these days.

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I respect the honesty of your post.

Beaudreaux said:

How about post a YouTube video showing Trump supporters rioting en masse. There have been about a dozen or so assholes that at Trump rallies that acted like assholes, mostly toward people acting like assholes first (but not always). However, tens of thousands of anti-Trump, anti-Constitution, anti-Peaceful change of power have been disrupting the lives of hundreds of thousands of people by blocking roads and , rioting in the streets, setting cars and buildings on fire, calling for physical harm to come to Trump, and of course, overturning a legal and peaceful election by force and/or subterfuge which is treason.

So yeah, I've been watching TV, and reading newspapers, and watching the undermining of the American rule of law.

After thinking about it further, I should have just said in response: nothing.

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I've heard of 61 people who became violent. There have been tens of thousands of people protesting. The overwhelming majority of them are peaceful.

I think they have a right to protest, but they should not intentionally obstruct roadways, and they should especially not resort to violent crime.

Honestly, i think your perspective here is exaggerated.

Absentglare said:

I respect the honesty of your post.

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I do have to add that not all of the reports are fake but, these days, I can only mostly believe it if it's video.

Absentglare said:

I've heard of 61 people who became violent. There have been tens of thousands of people protesting. The overwhelming majority of them are peaceful.

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Again: " :lamo "

Re: Are the "Winners" conducting themselves with class and maturity?

cpwill said:

Ah. We've gotten to the block-quote-so-we-can-ignore certain sections.

Sure. Leftists are responding really well and maturely to the election loss, so long as you don't count the ones who aren't, and Obama wasn't a divisive President, so long as you agree with what he said, ignore what he did, and give him the benefit of the doubt for things he "put badly".

Also worth noting - Trump has no racist supporters whatsoever so long as you don't count the ones who are, and every car I drive is a Maserati, except for the ones I actually own and drive.

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You are dishonestly going from the set of {all liberals, 74 million Americans} to the set of {rioters, 61 Americans, perhaps none of which are even liberal} to then make claims about {all liberals, 74 million Americans}.

You are even pointing out how you are trying to apply outliers to describe the entire population.

If we judge by the threads in many of the politically-oriented forums, not many are. They're mostly along the lines of "haha, liberals you suck. Liberals this, liberals that. We won, neener neener neener, YOU LOSERS!"

Absentglare said:

I've heard of 61 people who became violent. There have been tens of thousands of people protesting. The overwhelming majority of them are peaceful.

I think they have a right to protest, but they should not intentionally obstruct roadways, and they should especially not resort to violent crime.

Honestly, i think your perspective here is exaggerated.

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Believe what you want. I believe my own eyes.