Hussein Obama - Page 2

Hatuey · 01-08-08, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquapub

You're still the uncontested champion of missing the point.

If I were arguing that he was a terrorist, this counterpoint would mean something, but since it was merely that it is unwise to elect someone who over-sympathizes with the enemy in a time of war, this will just have to stand as another trademark, hysterically irrelevant Hatuey comeback.

Oh so you mean you have no evidence that he has any connection to the Islamic Jihad? That this is just another desperate attack on behalf of pubby? Why didn't you just say so. I mean obviously you'd have some kind of link proving he sympathizes with the enemy. But no. Just silly ranting about how it's unwise to elect American citizens who aren't Muslims.

GarzaUK · 01-08-08, 10:21 AM

Trust me Aqua, the whole world is wanting someone like Obama in the White House. He can sort the ME out, by doing something that GWB never did....diplomacy.

aquapub · 01-08-08, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

1) I believed it was a "war on terror", not a war on other religions

Us declaring war on terror (politically correct substitute for bloody Islamic savages) doesn't change the fact that there is a global jihad against America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

2) He isn't even Muslim

He was raised with strong Muslim influences and way over-sympathizes with Islamic lunatics over his own country. He might as well be a Japanese-American running to be put in charge of the military during WWII.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

3) Or are you at war against people who look too brown, too different?

I will answer this tired left-wing cliche with one of my own: "Bigot: a conservative winning an argument with a liberal."

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

It will be great if he is elected, it will show to the entire world that blacks can succeed in Western societies.

I'm not worried about showing the world that blacks can get ahead. The racist preferential treatment Democrats force everyone to give blacks in schools and on the job should already adequately demonstrate that.

I'm more concerned about showing the world that Americans are suicidal enough to elect a far left radical in love with militant Islam just because he is black.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

We must make up fake stories about false indoctrination into Islam.

Again, you go on and on answering a question no one has asked. I'm no fan of Michael Savage, but I can't help continuously noticing the manifestation of his mantra: "Liberalism is a mental disorder."

I never said any of the things you're responding to. What I said was that Hussein Obama had a strong Islamic influence and that he way over-sympathizes with the enemy.

Concentrate here for a second, Sparky...that means you need to refute that he is treasonous and that he has a strong Islamic background, not that he went to a madrassa, or that he took the oath on a Koran, or any of these other fake stories you've lied about me making up.

Hatuey · 01-08-08, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquapub

He was raised with strong Muslim influences and way over-sympathizes with Islamic lunatics over his own country. He might as well be a Japanese-American running to be put in charge of the military during WWII.

Bull**** claim.

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Who Is Barack Obama?

Quote:

Claim: Illinois senator Barack Obama is a "radical Muslim" who "will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance."

Status: False.

Origins: Barack Obama, 45, served as an Illinois state senator for several years, and in 2004 he won a seat representing that state in the U.S. Senate. His keynote address before the Democratic National Convention in June 2004 brought him national prominence, and he is currently one of the leading contenders for the nomination to represent the Democratic Party in the 2008 presidential election.

Barack Obama has an unusual and interesting background, which the above-quoted piece draws on to paint him as a dangerous, camouflaged radical Muslim. Much of the information presented therein about his background is distorted and exaggerated, however, and no evidence supports a claim that Obama is currently, or ever has been, a Muslim (radical or otherwise).

Claim: Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunh am, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas. Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii.

Barack Hussein Obama (Senator Obama's father) was born on the shores of Lake Victoria in Alego, Kenya. He met and married an American woman, Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas, while they were both attending the University of Hawaii. Their son, also named Barack Hussein Obama was born on 4 August 1961 at the Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii.

Although the elder Obama was raised as a Muslim, no evidence supports the claim that he was ever a "radical Muslim," and Senator Obama's family histories note that his father was an atheist or agnostic (i.e., no longer a practicing Muslim) by the time he married the younger Obama's mother. Of his mother's religious views, Senator Obama wrote:
For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness.

This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways — and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives.

In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.

Claim: When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya . His mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia . Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two years in a Catholic school.

Barack Obama's parents divorced when he was two years old, his father moving to Connecticut to continue his education before returning to Kenya. When the younger Obama was six years old, his mother married again, this time to Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian oil manager. Barack and his mother moved to Jakarta, Indonesia, where Obama spent 4-5 years attending both Muslim and Catholic schools before his mother sent him back to the United States to live with his maternal grandmother. The school Barack Obama attended in Indonesia was "Muslim" primarily in the sense that the preponderance of its student body was Muslim (because Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country), not in the sense that its main purpose was to inculcate students with Muslim religious teachings.

In his 2006 book, The Audacity of Hope, Obama elaborated on his early schooling, explaining that he attended both Catholic and Muslim schools in Indonesia — not out of any particular religious affiliation, but because his mother wanted him to obtain the best education possible under the circumstances:

During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables.

Claim: Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that he is not a radical.

Barack Obama never stated that he "was once a Muslim" (radical or otherwise), so his "handlers" have nothing to "conceal." Obama communications director Robert Gibbs noted that "Senator Obama has never been a Muslim. As a six-year-old in Catholic school, he studied the catechism." Barack Obama has been associated with the United Church of Christ since the mid-1980s, describes himself as a Christian, and says that he is "rooted in the Christian tradition."

Claim: Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.

As noted above, Barack Obama's parents divorced when he was only two years old, and his father then moved thousands of miles away, from Hawaii to Connecticut, so he couldn't have received much of an "introduction to Islam" from his (biological) father:
My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was two years old.

At the time of his death, my father remained a myth to me, both more and less than a man. He had left Hawaii back in 1963, when I was only two years old, so that as a child I knew him only through the stories that my mother and grandparents told.
(Barack's only other childhood contact with his father occurred when he was eleven years old, and his father came to visit Hawaii for a month at Christmastime. The elder Obama died when Barack Jr. was twenty-one years old.)

Claim: Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.

The claim that Obama attended a radical Wahabbist school in Indonesia in the mid-1960s is exceedingly far-fetched, given that:
The large Indonesian community resident in Mecca was a medium through which knowledge about Wahhabism reached Indonesia, but the community itself appears to have remained virtually immune to Wahhabi influences. In reality there was little direct influence of Wahhabism on Indonesian reformist thought until the 1970s.
Insight magazine claimed in a January 2007 article that Barack Obama spent at least four years attending what is variously described as a "madrassa," a "radical Muslim religious school," or a "Muslim seminary" in Indonesia, but CNN has more recently reported that its own investigation found those claims to be false:
[R]eporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the 'Situation Room.' "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

.......

"SDN Menteng 1 is a public primary school that is open to people of all faiths," said the spokesman, Sutopo, who goes by only one name. "Moreover, he studied earlier at Fransiskus Assisi, which is clearly a Catholic school."

Obama later transferred to SDN Menteng 1 the elite, secular elementary school at the center of the controversy. The school is public but is very competitive and has exceptionally high standards. It is located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta and attracts mostly middle- to upper-class students, among them several of former dictator Suharto's grandchildren.

Indonesia is home to several of the most radical Islamic schools in Southeast Asia, some with alleged terrorist links. But Akmad Solichin [the vice principal at SDN Menteng 1], who proudly pointed to a photo of a young Barry Obama, as he was known, said his school is not one of them.
Moreover, a statement released by the Obama campaign affirmed that:
In the past week, many of you have read a now thoroughly-debunked story by Insight Magazine, owned by the Washington Times, which cites unnamed sources close to a political campaign that claim Senator Obama was enrolled for "at least four years" in an Indonesian "Madrassa". The article says the "sources" believe the Madrassa was "espousing Wahhabism," a form of radical Islam.

All of the claims about Senator Obama’s faith and education raised in the Insight Magazine story and repeated on Fox News are false. Senator Obama was raised in a secular household in Indonesia by his stepfather and mother. Obama’s stepfather worked for a U.S. oil company, and sent his stepson to two years of Catholic school, as well as two years of public school.

To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.
Claim: Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.

I see you've yet to make the claim he was ever a Muslim. Why can't you make this claim?

americanwoman · 01-08-08, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquapub

\He might as well be a Japanese-American running to be put in charge of the military during WWII.

You act like there is something wrong with that. So by your logic, when we are at war with someone we cannot trust anyone who has ever somewhat been associated with or has heritage with said country.

How ironic we had a German, during WWII - while fighting Germans, developing weapons for us. How could we have trusted him

aquapub · 01-08-08, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

Please stop posting things like this and making the party look bad. You're really not helping.

Please stop cowering to political correctness and consider the folly of putting a far left, terror-sympathizing radical in charge of our military during a global jihad against America.

aquapub · 01-08-08, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

Oh so you mean you have no evidence that he has any connection to the Islamic Jihad?

Of course I don't, which is why I never claimed such a thing.

WI Crippler · 01-08-08, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquapub

Unqualified statements establish nothing. You have to demonstrate what is inconsistent between my depiction of things and the reality.

Easy enough.

You claim that Barack Obama's Islamic roots are what should give us pause. Thats completey unfounded, as you have no evidence to suggest that his Islamic roots are what is influencing his stances.

Although I would agree that his stance on the WOT and Iraq war are, IMO, not going to lead to positive solutions for either the US or the Middle East, his sentiments are also echoed by all the democratic candidates, as well as one republican candidate, none of which are Islamic, and of which a few are probably christian. Does their christianity give me pause? No and neither does Obama's Islamic background.

If you can find me quote from Barack Obama where he cites that Islamic law dictates to him that we must pull ourselves from Iraq and the WoT, I will retract my statement. Otherwise you are the one who is making an unfounded correlation.

aps · 01-08-08, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquapub

Even putting aside his frightening patty-cake approach to foreign threats and extreme cradle-to-grave nanny state proposals, electing a president with such Islamic roots as Barak Hussein Obama in the middle of a global jihad against America would be a bit like having elected a Japanese president at the height of WWII. Should this bother people?

I'm glad that the only one who is bothered by this is you, aquapub. And it doesn't appear to be bothering a lot of voters in Iowa either.

If you're going to insult the man, you could at least spell his name correctly. There is a "c" in his first name, but all you're concerned about is getting his middle name spelled correctly. How sad.

aquapub · 01-08-08, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarzaUK

Trust me Aqua, the whole world is wanting someone like Obama in the White House. He can sort the ME out, by doing something that GWB never did....diplomacy.

You just hit the nail on the head. The whole world is competing with us. As the lone world superpower, virtually everything our competitors press us to do is to their interests, and at the expense of our own. Perfect example: Kyoto.

And even if your point here was not meaningless, it would still be an ad populum fallacy.

And how exactly did GWB never do diplomacy? By removing Iraq's genocidal terror-sponsoring regime after 15 years of failed multi-lateral diplomacy? That's a sign of someone learning from history; of grasping the nature of warmongering aggressors like Saddam.