Did the 3rd debate matter?

For everything that was said, and all the post debate discussions, did the 3rd debate matter? Did it change many votes?

Kreton said:

For everything that was said, and all the post debate discussions, did the 3rd debate matter? Did it change many votes?

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No debate in the world is going to make me vote for Trump or Clinton. Presidential debates are for those who pay little to no attention to politics.

It didn't move the needle in any direction.

jamesrage said:

No debate in the world is going to make me vote for Trump or Clinton. Presidential debates are for those who pay little to no attention to politics.

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Thats a good point. Most people on this site probably swayed very little by debates.

jamesrage said:

No debate in the world is going to make me vote for Trump or Clinton. Presidential debates are for those who pay little to no attention to politics.

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They seem to matter in the US. I think it's more a matter of presentation than substance. I doubt anybody could get elected anywhere today just putting their platform and policies out on the radio.
That said, I would sit this one out too.

Kreton said:

For everything that was said, and all the post debate discussions, did the 3rd debate matter? Did it change many votes?

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Well, let's define "matter", and in that regard it mattered a lot as neither side lost any ground. However, it appears Trump's attempt to steal the show with his childishly defiant "I'll keep you in suspense" is being hijacked by a totally different and organic dialogue; that being how large will be the turn out and the dangers inherent in that for Hilary.

Where a large part of Trump's base is rabid and will no doubt eagerly go to the polls, much of Hilary's support has been soft. The danger for her now is an undercurrent of ennui caused the idea that Trump is simply too horrible to get elected and the other side of that coin where, in the end, no amount of nose holding will allow them to fill in the top of the ballot.

I see this ultimately as close, possibly another Bush/Gore win only this time for the Democrats; Trump then causing all sorts of constitutional havoc and finally relenting when his immense ego feels like it has extracted enough revenge for the teasing Obama gave him at the White House press corps dinner.

Grand Mal said:

They seem to matter in the US. I think it's more a matter of presentation than substance. I doubt anybody could get elected anywhere today just putting their platform and policies out on the radio.
That said, I would sit this one out too.

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They became essential to the fabric of politics in the Kennedy/Nixon debate in 1960, where at first the debate was given to Nixon, who destroyed Kennedy on knowledge, especially foreign policy, then shifted to a "win" as more and more people weighed in on how "shifty" was Nixon because of his 'five o'clock shadow' against Kennedy's big hair.

Since then, there have been some knock out punches, a half dozen at least delivered by Regan [i.e "I will not make my opponents lack of experience become an issue in this campaign in response to his age]; the knock out is what they go in there for. However, until Trump they have been so carefully choreographed those one-liners are very rare.

After Trump's performance and more lying anyone could keep track of, I suspect their value will wane over time

I got a kick out of several pro Trump apologists last night and again this morning who took the line that the guy was doing so good and winning the debate right up until the last ten minutes and then he misstepped.

Okay lets concede that premise for a moment without challenge even though it is patently ludicrous on its face.

It would be akin to walking across Niagara Falls on a tight rope only to fall to your death with thirty feet to go. You fell. You crashed on he rocks. You died. That is the story.

And it changed no votes. And when you go into the final debate down from six to twelve points and you change no votes, you are broken and bleeding on those same rocks.

Grand Mal said:

They seem to matter in the US. I think it's more a matter of presentation than substance. I doubt anybody could get elected anywhere today just putting their platform and policies out on the radio.
That said, I would sit this one out too.

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Most people regardless if they lean left,right or center tend to be very knowledgeable when it comes to politics and the candidates. Voters in general tend to ignorant when it comes politics and the candidates,so they would be the ones swayed by commercials and debates.

Fearandloathing said:

Well, let's define "matter", and in that regard it mattered a lot as neither side lost any ground. However, it appears Trump's attempt to steal the show with his childishly defiant "I'll keep you in suspense" is being hijacked by a totally different and organic dialogue; that being how large will be the turn out and the dangers inherent in that for Hilary.

Where a large part of Trump's base is rabid and will no doubt eagerly go to the polls, much of Hilary's support has been soft. The danger for her now is an undercurrent of ennui caused the idea that Trump is simply too horrible to get elected and the other side of that coin where, in the end, no amount of nose holding will allow them to fill in the top of the ballot.

I see this ultimately as close, possibly another Bush/Gore win only this time for the Democrats; Trump then causing all sorts of constitutional havoc and finally relenting when his immense ego feels like it has extracted enough revenge for the teasing Obama gave him at the White House press corps dinner.

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Actually, the bolded seems to have reversed the past few weeks, and quite a few polls have picked-up on it.




Source: Twitter Nick Gourevitch


And similar in nature:

"More registered voters would feel “enthusiastic” or “pleased” if Clinton were to win in November (37 percent), than would feel that way about a Trump win (30 percent). "

Source: Fox News Poll


For this and other reasons I believe it will be a strong win Clinton.

The debates were painful. I'm glad they're over.

humbolt said:

The debates were painful. I'm glad they're over.

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Yeah, debate #2 was dark & sinister IMO. A foreshadowing of what a Trump Presidency may look like.

Chomsky said:

Yeah, debate #2 was dark & sinister IMO. A foreshadowing of what a Trump Presidency may look like.

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I haven't been impressed by any of the candidates or the campaigns. The debates were just icing on a **** cake. It's going to be a bumpy ride no matter who wins. I don't mind bumpy rides, but at my age I want to be able to pick which ones I'm willing to suffer. Neither of these two offer me any choice in the matter, and the third party candidates remain an electoral joke. The biggest danger at this point would be if the election ends up in the House. All hell will break loose then.

humbolt said:

I haven't been impressed by any of the candidates or the campaigns. The debates were just icing on a **** cake. It's going to be a bumpy ride no matter who wins. I don't mind bumpy rides, but at my age I want to be able to pick which ones I'm willing to suffer. Neither of these two offer me any choice in the matter, and the third party candidates remain an electoral joke. The biggest danger at this point would be if the election ends up in the House. All hell will break loose then.

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At this point it is the only fitting end to the bizarre, upside-down bass-ackwards election.

Kreton said:

For everything that was said, and all the post debate discussions, did the 3rd debate matter? Did it change many votes?

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As you're asking for predictions instead of results (since we won't have concrete poll results for a week), my prediction is that it will not have changed many votes. The goal was for Clinton to hold on to her states and for Trump to gain additional ones. Clinton was the one who achieved her goal.

Chomsky said:

Actually, the bolded seems to have reversed the past few weeks, and quite a few polls have picked-up on it.


View attachment 67208853

Source: Twitter Nick Gourevitch


And similar in nature:

"More registered voters would feel “enthusiastic” or “pleased” if Clinton were to win in November (37 percent), than would feel that way about a Trump win (30 percent). "

Source: Fox News Poll


For this and other reasons I believe it will be a strong win Clinton.

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That's being missed by our CBC. Thanks.

It appears Trump's antics have put some mojo behind the old witch

humbolt said:

I haven't been impressed by any of the candidates or the campaigns. The debates were just icing on a **** cake. It's going to be a bumpy ride no matter who wins. I don't mind bumpy rides, but at my age I want to be able to pick which ones I'm willing to suffer. Neither of these two offer me any choice in the matter, and the third party candidates remain an electoral joke. The biggest danger at this point would be if the election ends up in the House. All hell will break loose then.

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Well, I'll tell ya':

I really disliked HRC, and didn't want her as president. But, I'm slightly warming up to her - just slightly.

I think after contrasting her to the boondoggle of Donald Trump, she's looking better to me in terms of competent leadership.

I still don't like her or her personality, but I think I can accept her in terms of competency.

Abbazorkzog said:

At this point it is the only fitting end to the bizarre, upside-down bass-ackwards election.

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Perhaps, but I hope not. I did watch the debate last night in spite of my better judgement. Trump left a lot on the table, and Hillary dodged a lot that was put there. I was not impressed. Few minds were changed. The only good thing was that the debate was more ordered and controlled than the first two. But we have to realize that debate between these two is much like taking two wild dogs on leashes for a walk in the park.

Fearandloathing said:

That's being missed by our CBC. Thanks.

It appears Trump's antics have put some mojo behind the old witch

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You're welcome.

BTW, take a read of the Fox article if you don't mind - it's short, and comprised of demographic quantitative analysis. Looking at the numbers contained in the article might give you pause, if you're still expecting a close race.

The problem the GOP had, was Donald was indeed Teflon through the Primary and deep into the General, snookering them and leaving them little recourse but to support him, until now when it's all too late the Teflon effect has worn off!

Kreton said:

For everything that was said, and all the post debate discussions, did the 3rd debate matter? Did it change many votes?

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It didn't matter, most minds were well set prior to any debates. Only around 6% of the electorate was undecided prior to the first debate and roughly 6% are still undecided. Considering Hillary has a six point lead or according to some polls more, there is no way Trump could convince every single undecided to vote for him.

I can't wait until this election is over. Trump has done everything he could possibly do to make sure Clinton won with his ineptness, his foot in mouth disease, his constant bullying actions, his making enemies within his own party, the feuds he started, and on and on. Historians will look back on this election and wonder if making sure Clinton won was what Trump was all about with his million and one miscues. Conspiracy theories will arise, in fact they have started already according to a couple of other threads and posts.

Cardinal said:

As you're asking for predictions instead of results (since we won't have concrete poll results for a week), my prediction is that it will not have changed many votes. The goal was for Clinton to hold on to her states and for Trump to gain additional ones. Clinton was the one who achieved her goal.

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Did it have any effect on how you will vote?

Chomsky said:

Well, I'll tell ya':

I really disliked HRC, and didn't want her as president. But, I'm slightly warming up to her - just slightly.

I think after contrasting her to the boondoggle of Donald Trump, she's looking better to me in terms of competent leadership.

I still don't like her or her personality, but I think I can accept her in terms of competency.

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Heh. I'm the opposite, but only barely so. I only hope that if I actually do vote for Trump, that I don't feel the need to blow my brains out 6 months from now out of shame and embarrassment. I believe Trump will get the economy growing at a more robust rate, and those younger than me really need that right now. Beyond that, I don't trust either of 'em.

Kreton said:

Did it have any effect on how you will vote?

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Me personally? No, none at all.

Perotista said:

It didn't matter, most minds were well set prior to any debates. Only around 6% of the electorate was undecided prior to the first debate and roughly 6% are still undecided. Considering Hillary has a six point lead or according to some polls more, there is no way Trump could convince every single undecided to vote for him.

I can't wait until this election is over. Trump has done everything he could possibly do to make sure Clinton won with his ineptness, his foot in mouth disease, his constant bullying actions, his making enemies within his own party, the feuds he started, and on and on. Historians will look back on this election and wonder if making sure Clinton won was what Trump was all about with his million and one miscues. Conspiracy theories will arise, in fact they have started already according to a couple of other threads and posts.

Click to expand...

Those conspiracy theories do seem to have some merit. Some of his statements/donations/actions in the past and his present day mishaps certainly would support those theories. I dont believe them, but I get how others could.

Chomsky said:

You're welcome.

BTW, take a read of the Fox article if you don't mind - it's short, and comprised of demographic quantitative analysis. Looking at the numbers contained in the article might give you pause, if you're still expecting a close race.

The problem the GOP had, was Donald was indeed Teflon through the Primary and deep into the General, snookering them and leaving them little recourse but to support him, until now when it's all too late the Teflon effect has worn off!

Click to expand...

I scanned it and will look again when I have time. I think I understand the difference in coverage, Canadians generally are so horrified of Trump - note he and Trudeau who has an 80% approval rating are exact opposites. Along with the fact CBC has one reporter in DC covering the whole election. However, the post-debate commentary was ALL about Trump and not guarantee a "peaceful" transition. Most of the news today is about that, and how the US $ is dropping in relation to ours because of that and other creepy crap Trump has pulled.

Personally, this election has demonstrated to me how our two countries are pulling apart, culturally, economically and politically. The Conservative Party of Canada is seeking a new leader to replace the instantly disappearing Stephen Harper. One of the "no-body" candidates has called for a return to the gay marriage debate. I am probably one of 19 people in Canada who noticed. However, that stance alone and the fact none of her opponents has called her on it, has caused the National Post, the country's only right wing paper to opine that "true conservatism is dead" in Canada and the candidate's ramblings about gay marriage are "backward idealizing" helping to relegate the party to "the forgotten woodpile" of Canadian politics. That's our right wing calling a platform of Trump's dead in the water.

As I read the business news, there is explicit concern about Hilary's stance on trade, with one writer hailing the work of the Harper government as "weaning the country off the sweet teat of American consumerism" and reducing US-Canada trade to less than 40% of our GDP.

So, there is a trade war looming between us regardless, as the Canada-US softwood lumber pact is expiring along with the Downstream Columbia River agreement and a host of other deals over the next two or three years. Personally I have not felt such wariness of Americans here since the 1960's when Canada told Johnson to shove it on draft dodgers. That lasted until Reagan.

These supporters who think Trump is helping their country are fools. The whole world is watching with the same rubberneck attitude of a fatal car crash, and growing more and more horrified every day