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Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian transgressions?

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
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Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...

In the international arena, a weak Administration has invited aggression. The results of the Administration’s unilateral approach to disarmament are already clear: An emboldened China in the South China Sea, a resurgent Russia occupying parts of Ukraine and threatening neighbors from the Baltic to the Caucasus, and an aggressive Islamist terror network in the Middle East. We support maintaining and, if warranted, increasing sanctions, together with our allies, against Russia unless and until Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity are fully restored. We also support providing appropriate assistance to the armed forces of Ukraine and greater coordination with NATO defense planning.
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For the people of Russia, we affirm our respect and our determination to maintain a friendship beyond the reach of those who wish to divide us. We have common imperatives: Ending terrorism, combating nuclear proliferation, promoting trade, and more. We also have a common problem: The continuing erosion of personal liberty and fundamental rights under the current officials in the Kremlin. Repressive at home and reckless abroad, their policies imperil the nations which regained their self-determination upon the collapse of the Soviet Union. We will meet the return of Russian belligerence with the same resolve that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. We will not accept any territorial change in Eastern Europe imposed by force, in Ukraine, Georgia, or elsewhere, and will use all appropriate constitutional measures to bring to justice the practitioners of aggression and assassination.
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REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
 
Could a Mod please add a "Yes" or "No" poll?
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...




REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
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If he/she/it is anti Obama and now anti-Clinton then many American cons will support that he/she/it.

I've had Cons tell me they would support Hitler before they'd support Obama or Clinton. So because Putin doesn't get along with Obama, and is actively supporting Trump over Clinton, yes they will excuse and even defend Putin. Until of course there's an (R) in the WH. Then Putin/Russia will become their mortal enemies again.
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...




REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
Click to expand...

It would seem you've made an association based on an identification that may not follow traditional lines.

There are a number of posters here on DP who have selected "conservative" and are clearly not conservative in the traditional sense the word has been applied.
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...




REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
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When you say excusing ans supporting Russian aggression in Crimea do you mean the Crimeans voting to separate from Ukraine and Russia taking them in? And when you say excusing Russian war Crimes in Syria do you mean Russians bombing ISIS in Syria and supporting their ally Assad?
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up....

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"
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If you are going to make such a claim it would be appropriate to cite from the actual posts you are alluding to, so that we can see exactly what you are talking about.

How else to determine the validity of your claims, or provide a valid assessment and response?

For example, Conservative does not equate to membership in the Republican Party. These members could be Democrats, Libertarians, Independents, etc.

You might also be exaggerating their actual positions, or be mistaken about them entirely.

So, please respond with the actual evidence supporting your allegations so we can make an informed response.
 
It's quite simple really. Conventional conservatives (for a lack of a better word) are as strident as ever vis-a-vis Russia. What you're referring to are self-proclaimed conservatives that until recently were apolitical. They're the white trash masses that Trump energized and totalized, and since Trump is pro-Russia, so are they.
 
ocean515 said:
It would seem you've made an association based on an identification that may not follow traditional lines.

There are a number of posters here on DP who have selected "conservative" and are clearly not conservative in the traditional sense the word has been applied.
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Maybe they are progressive conservatives or maybe 1950s conservatives. The meaning of these words seems to be in continuous change and shifting sometime like in the case of "liberal" to be the opposite of its earlier meaning.
 
Gaztopian said:
It's quite simple really. Conventional conservatives (for a lack of a better word) are as strident as ever vis-a-vis Russia. What you're referring to are self-proclaimed conservatives that until recently were apolitical. They're the white trash masses that Trump energized and totalized, and since Trump is pro-Russia, so are they.
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Like the Sanders disciples they missed history, economics and political science classes, I guess.
 
joG said:
Maybe they are progressive conservatives or maybe 1950s conservatives. The meaning of these words seems to be in continuous change and shifting sometime like in the case of "liberal" to be the opposite of its earlier meaning.
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Agreed. I have no idea what any of these labels mean any more. It seems we are in an age where those pushing against labels are creating more labels and definitions than ever before. It also seems they are changing traditional labels in order to attach negative stigmas to those they need to get out of the way of their agenda.
 
It seems a bit odd that conservatives would support communists. The liberals could never get away with doing that.
 
"Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian transgressions?"

So only liberals should state opinions?
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...




REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
Click to expand...

Excellent question. Can you imagine the narrative if Hillary were to be endorsed by Putin, or to state that she would get along very well with Putin, or to call him "a very outstanding man, unquestionably talented"? Seems that it's OK when a Republican man does it, but not if a Democratic woman were to.
 
Gaztopian said:
It's quite simple really. Conventional conservatives (for a lack of a better word) are as strident as ever vis-a-vis Russia. What you're referring to are self-proclaimed conservatives that until recently were apolitical. They're the white trash masses that Trump energized and totalized, and since Trump is pro-Russia, so are they.
Click to expand...
I think you are spot on Gaztopian. True conservatives are allowing their core ideology and values to be hijacked by political rabble.

I had always assumed the term conservative for an American citizen denoted a traditional (Reagan) republican who strongly adhered to the GOP party platform.

But that no longer seems to be the case. A 'conservative' nowadays can apparently occupy any niche from the far-left to the far-right ... and support an authoritarian foe of democracy !

I had no idea that Trump had inflicted such deep ideological wounds on the GOP. Reagan would be stunned to read the reply's in this thread.

Why even have DP lean-designations if they can be bastardized to denote virtually anything and have lost all semblance of a recognizable and consistent label ?
 
ocean515 said:
Agreed. I have no idea what any of these labels mean any more. It seems we are in an age where those pushing against labels are creating more labels and definitions than ever before. It also seems they are changing traditional labels in order to attach negative stigmas to those they need to get out of the way of their agenda.
Click to expand...

Totally so. Expressions and words are losing their traditional meanings, where that helps the ideology. This seems to even be going on in jurisprudence, where the meanings of a law or ammendment are being altered ie the words receive new meanings that are applied to reach completely different decisions than the original meaning would have allowed.
 
Simpleχity;1066376919 said:
Within the past 24 hours while signed-in to DP, I came across two DP members (in different threads) with 'conservative' listed as their political lean. Both were engaged in excusing/supporting the Putin regime. They insist Russia has a right to steal Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine. They refuse to condemn Russian war crimes in Syria, especially the bombing of hospitals in Aleppo which even the usually stoic Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon has denounced as war crimes. They also freely engaged in bashing the United States.

What sort of 'conservative' engages in these behaviors ? Has the GOP platform on Russia changed so drastically ? Intrigued, I looked it up...




REPUBLICAN PLATFORM 2016 | America Resurgent

The official GOP platform regarding Putin's Russia is pretty much what I thought it was. Thus the poll question:

Should US conservatives engage in excusing/supporting Russian aggression and the crimes of the Putin regime? "Yes" or "No"


Note: This poll has nothing whatsoever to do with the current Obama or previous US administrations or real/imagined US misdeeds. It has nothing to do with Clinton or Trump. I am politically an Independent and detest both US presidential candidates. I am simply at a loss to internalize why self-declared conservatives would embrace such anti-GOP attitudes.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is a relatively recent phenomenon or if its always been this way, but most people do not support their own principles when it comes to politics. They support their side. Whether its democrat feminists who defended former President Clinton and his objectifying of women, Democrat African-Americans who refused to support Condoleeza Rice when she was raked over the coals in Senate hearings over Middle Eastern policy, Republicans who created the concept for individual mandate for health insurance then acted like Obama was destroying America for implementing their policy to Republicans bailing out Wall Street and the auto industry. "They" do and they're get vilified. "We" do it and crickets chirp.
 
Simpleχity;1066377552 said:
I think you are spot on Gaztopian. True conservatives are allowing their core ideology and values to be hijacked by political rabble.
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American conservatives have no one but themselves to blame for the abject state of their ideology and the party embodying it. In order to survive in an electoral environment where liberals and democrats adopted a populist and an inclusive platform that championed minorities' rights, women's rights, workers' rights, scientific enlightenment, and environmental concerns, conservatives and republicans decided to adopt an antithetical platform that antagonized and marginalized minorities and women, made of the little man a sworn enemy of the party, and spread anti-intellectualism and misinformation on a grand scale in its attempt to recruit the sludge of the country for the electoral survival of the party and its underlying ideology.

The reason why many conservatives and republicans are in such disbelief vis-a-vis the Trump phenomenon is that they genuinely believe that the conservative ideology and the republican party aren't about the racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and asininity that Trump and his followers exemplify, but that doesn't change the reality that they've been fattening the beast for decades now - it was only a matter of time for a Trump to emerge and unshackle it. That the party's cardinal sins were never out of conviction but out of expediency has no bearing to reality and culpability.
 
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