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Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Is single-payer in the US inevitable?


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radcen

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Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

i agree because as the older people die out, those who have been taught government is here to solve their problems will look more and more to government to do that.

this of course will make government bigger and bigger controling more and more

governments rise and fall because of the people in them.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

Probably not, though I suppose it depends on what you mean.

Consider the possibility that both the left and the right get what they've asked for, and neither gets what it wants: the U.S. moves toward a unified "Medicare for all" system, while at the same time implementing something like the Ryan reforms to Medicare. Leaving us in a state of universal coverage and significantly heavier public financing of health care, but via a system where people get coverage by choosing from among competing private insurers in exchanges.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

i'd say that it's likely, but not inevitable. i'd prefer single payer, so i hope that we're heading in that direction.
 
Yes it's inevitable. Demographic projections indicate that groups which support single payer are growing at a rapid rate.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

Nope, although I can envision some type of basic single-payer with most people getting supplemental insurance.
 
A system that does not adhere to the fundamental laws of supply and demand and because of its very nature never will, at some point will get so cost prohibitive that it will collapse and thus need very significant reform. Every other modern developed nation has figured this out but us. So yes, at some point something big will happen regardless of which party is in power at the time. Whether its some sort of single payer system or not.... I don't know.

What I will imagine will happen is that Medicare coverage will be extended down to ages 50 or so and there will be a pubic system for those under 50 whose health issues are so significant that they are uninsurable in the private sector. At that point the biggest cost drivers will be subsidized and I would imagine that health coverage for everyone else would be fairly affordable through traditional insurers.

The fact is its not routine care that drives up health costs. That is a tiny, tiny percentage of health spending. Its end of life care, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and dementia that account for the majority of health spending.

Think about it this way. How much do you think your employers health coverage would cost if they only were covering employees under the age of 50? I would be a fraction of what it is now.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

If they look to the North, to Canada, and learn about the horrors of that system, then no.

All it would take is honest journalism to kill that sick idea... But our Goebbels inspired Leftist propaganda mill is far from providing information and letting the public decide.

Though sick, I had to laugh at the title page of Die Bild Zeitung a few weeks ago... As it was almost in perfect harmony with Reagan's joke about the Soviet citizen/slave getting his car in ten years... Then asks morning or evening to the KGB agent... With the agent responding, what's it matter... It's in 10-years... Where the citizen/slave says... Well, the plumber is coming in the morning.

This poor guy has to wait 3-years to see an internist.

Sigmar HausmannÂ*(64) aus Meißen soll bis 2019 auf Untersuchung warten | Arzt-Termin erst in drei Jahren! - News Inland - Bild.de

Hausmann ist fassungslos, spricht den Arzt an: „Das sind doch über drei Jahre, da liege ich eventuell schon auf dem Friedhof.“ Als Reaktion soll der Internist laut Hausmann gesagt haben: „Dann ist das so!“

Translation: Hausmann is completely bewildered, and asks the Dr.: "This is over 3-years, and it's likely I could be in the grave by then." The reaction from the Internist according to Hausmann: "Then it is so!"

That's the heartless social medical system... Rationed healthcare... And a system corrupt... As those who have contacts, or cash to usurp the system... Do. Just check out Canada.


A friend with an irritating skin allergy, or some reaction, had to wait 9-months in misery before getting a time with a dermatologist... In Germany. The appointment was about a month ago.

A family member living in Canada had a botched eye surgery, went back four times to get help, they didn't believe... Until the fifth time... When they realized something went wrong with the surgery.

Obama destroyed a fundamentally great system, one perverted and destroyed by government, and now made massively worse.
 
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i agree because as the older people die out, those who have been taught government is here to solve their problems will look more and more to government to do that.

this of course will make government bigger and bigger controling more and more

governments rise and fall because of the people in them.

Well to be sure, the insurance companies have done an abysmal job at teaching us they can solve our problems.
 
If they look to the North, to Canada, and learn about the horrors of that system, then no.

All it would take is honest journalism to kill that sick idea... But our Goebbels inspired Leftist propaganda mill is far from providing information and letting the public decide..

If Canada has such a horrible system as compared to ours, then why do the Canadian people not insist their government adopt our system? It's not like it would be that difficult. Insurers here in the United States would jump at the chance of moving into Canada and building provider networks. Yet despite that, the Canadians do not want our system. Nor do the citizens of any other modern developed nation on earth. In fact, at the mention of any one in their governments adopting our system, those citizens would practically revolt. That should you tell you something.
 
If Canada has such a horrible system as compared to ours, then why do the Canadian people not insist their government adopt our system? It's not like it would be that difficult. Insurers here in the United States would jump at the chance of moving into Canada and building provider networks. Yet despite that, the Canadians do not want our system. Nor do the citizens of any other modern developed nation on earth. In fact, at the mention of any one in their governments adopting our system, those citizens would practically revolt. That should you tell you something.

The question is...

Why do Canadians come to the US for critical services they cannot get in Canada?

Why can't they get them?

Why do they come to the US to get services they can get in Canada?

Why don't Americans go to the Great Kanuckistani System?

Why did the Quebec Supreme Court rule that waiting lists do not constitute "care"?

Why do Canadians have such massive waiting lists for such simple procedures?

Why do Canadians suffer with aged equipment?

Why?

Because it's government run.

Tell me, what government program works well? On time, on budget, or less than predicted, friendly, goes the extra mile? NONE. And you want government taking care of your health? Phew!
 
The question is...

Why do Canadians come to the US for critical services they cannot get in Canada?

Why can't they get them?

Why do they come to the US to get services they can get in Canada?

Why don't Americans go to the Great Kanuckistani System?

Why did the Quebec Supreme Court rule that waiting lists do not constitute "care"?

Why do Canadians have such massive waiting lists for such simple procedures?

Why do Canadians suffer with aged equipment?

Why?

Because it's government run.

Tell me, what government program works well? On time, on budget, or less than predicted, friendly, goes the extra mile? NONE. And you want government taking care of your health? Phew!

Medical Tourism | Features | CDC
 
A system that does not adhere to the fundamental laws of supply and demand and because of its very nature never will, at some point will get so cost prohibitive that it will collapse and thus need very significant reform. Every other modern developed nation has figured this out but us. So yes, at some point something big will happen regardless of which party is in power at the time. Whether its some sort of single payer system or not.... I don't know.

What I will imagine will happen is that Medicare coverage will be extended down to ages 50 or so and there will be a pubic system for those under 50 whose health issues are so significant that they are uninsurable in the private sector. At that point the biggest cost drivers will be subsidized and I would imagine that health coverage for everyone else would be fairly affordable through traditional insurers.

The fact is its not routine care that drives up health costs. That is a tiny, tiny percentage of health spending. Its end of life care, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and dementia that account for the majority of health spending.

Think about it this way. How much do you think your employers health coverage would cost if they only were covering employees under the age of 50? I would be a fraction of what it is now.

Unfortunately, the "fairness" achieved by PPACA (federal control of "private" medical care insurance) was done by largely eliminating actuarial risk (aka pre-existing conditions) and mandating many "no out of pocket cost" (free?) treatments. Both are designed to increase "average" premiums (and deductibles) to cover the cost of care for those "high risk" folks, that you have mentioned, and to cover those "free" treatments.

We now have a patchwork of "health" programs: Medicare for the elderly, VA for veterans, Medicaid for the poor, employer provided "private" insurance for most, unlimited (cash) care for the rich and the heavily subsidized PPACA exchanges for the rest.

I think that "single payer" will still leave most of these existing bits and pieces in place and gradually morph into existence from a PPACA "public option" that, of course, is not really optional for many of those that must fund it (via taxation) even if they wanted to "opt out'.
 
Nope, although I can envision some type of basic single-payer with most people getting supplemental insurance.

So like the Dutch system? Where everyone is required to purchase an insurance package that the government sets the price for and covers things like accidents and other short-term care but the government still pays for things like cancer treatment. You can also purchase supplemental insurance to cover more things.
 
insurance companies is not the only problem.

No they're not but the private sector seems incapable of solving them, granted gov't already has a big finger in the pie with medicare.
 
The question is...

Why do Canadians come to the US for critical services they cannot get in Canada?

Why can't they get them?

Why do they come to the US to get services they can get in Canada?

Why don't Americans go to the Great Kanuckistani System?

Why did the Quebec Supreme Court rule that waiting lists do not constitute "care"?

Why do Canadians have such massive waiting lists for such simple procedures?

Why do Canadians suffer with aged equipment?

Why?

Because it's government run.

Tell me, what government program works well? On time, on budget, or less than predicted, friendly, goes the extra mile? NONE. And you want government taking care of your health? Phew!

There is no evidence that Canadians travel to the US for any medical in any significant amount. Even if they do it usually for entirely elective procedures (e.g. plastic surgery) or newer experimental procedures not yet approved for use in Canada. We have waiting lists for things because care is done on the urgency needed of that care. Someone in more need of the of the procedure will always be put before someone who does not. People who do not need immediate care must wait but those who do need urgent care get it. It is also not like the US does not have waiting lists either, they are just a lot less visible and less transparent. People do not go bankrupt in our system or get saddled with debt and people do get the care they need.
 
No they're not but the private sector seems incapable of solving them, granted gov't already has a big finger in the pie with medicare.

2006 Interview with Milton Friedman Before we had the perversion known as ObamaKare.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/emfree-to-chooseem-a-conversation-with-milton-friedman/

LA: Is there an area here in the United States in which we have not been as aggressive as we should in promoting property rights and free markets?

MF: Yes, in the field of medical care. We have a socialist-communist system of distributing medical care. Instead of letting people hire their own physicians and pay them, no one pays his or her own medical bills. Instead, there’s a third party payment system. It is a communist system and it has a communist result. Despite this, we’ve had numerous miracles in medical science. From the discovery of penicillin, to new surgical techniques, to MRIs and CAT scans, the last 30 or 40 years have been a period of miraculous change in medical science. On the other hand, we’ve seen costs skyrocket. Nobody is happy: physicians don’t like it, patients don’t like it. Why? Because none of them are responsible for themselves. You no longer have a situation in which a patient chooses a physician, receives a service, gets charged, and pays for it. There is no direct relation between the patient and the physician. The physician is an employee of an insurance company or an employee of the government. Today, a third party pays the bills. As a result, no one who visits the doctor asks what the charge is going to be—somebody else is going to take care of that. The end result is third party payment and, worst of all, third party treatment.
 
I'm sure, but that's a different thread. :2razz:

Not really - the best way to create "need" for a government (the single payer) solution is for the federal government to **** up the current "private" alternative as much as possible by "regulating" it (PPACA?).

What better way to do that than to outlaw consideration of most actuarial risk factors (the very basis for establishing insurance premium rates) by labeling them (as evil?) "pre-existing conditions"?

Would most "good drivers" favor dropping consideration of driving record infractions or past "accident" history (pre-existing documented risk differences?) from affecting auto insurance premium rates?
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

I believe so. The healthcare system has been so messed up, due to government intervention, that I think it may be too broke to revert to the more free market model that I prefer.
 
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.

It is certainly not enviable that one shoot oneself in the foot. And the performance of the social democracies is unravelling at the edges and in some cases from the center. That should be noticed even by the left. It is hard for them as the Germans are learning as they cut the level of service, hollow out the programs and manage the rationing, while the fiscal health of the public insurances is pressuring for higher premiums.
 
There is no evidence that Canadians travel to the US for any medical in any significant amount. Even if they do it usually for entirely elective procedures (e.g. plastic surgery) or newer experimental procedures not yet approved for use in Canada. We have waiting lists for things because care is done on the urgency needed of that care. Someone in more need of the of the procedure will always be put before someone who does not. People who do not need immediate care must wait but those who do need urgent care get it. It is also not like the US does not have waiting lists either, they are just a lot less visible and less transparent. People do not go bankrupt in our system or get saddled with debt and people do get the care they need.

ROTFLOL... There is ample evidence over the decades, and lots of stories:

Like the one of a pregnant woman in Alberta who couldn't get the service needed for a mildly complicated birth. Edmonton and Calgary... Million plus populations, nor Red Deer in the middle of the two could help her. What to do? They sent her south of the border to a town of 60,000... Great Falls.

That town did what the great Socialist System of Canada could not accomplish.

Or MP... Liberal politician Stronach. Diagnosed with cancer, she did not wait in line for care in the Canadian system... Nope... She bolted south of the border.

More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds
More than 52,000 Canadians travelled abroad for health care last year, study finds | National Post
Up 25%.
 
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I believe so. The healthcare system has been so messed up, due to government intervention, that I think it may be too broke to revert to the more free market model that I prefer.

That is what the liberals would like people to believe. But you are quite right that the public sector has handled its side of health care about as badly as it could. It is badly structured, does damage and is very wasteful.
 
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