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Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
joG said:
It is certainly not enviable that one shoot oneself in the foot. And the performance of the social democracies is unravelling at the edges and in some cases from the center. That should be noticed even by the left. It is hard for them as the Germans are learning as they cut the level of service, hollow out the programs and manage the rationing, while the fiscal health of the public insurances is pressuring for higher premiums.
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A friend of mine is a German MD. He left and went to Switzerland.

Qualified to take x-rays and do small surgery... The government didn't let him.

He wasn't making any money... In Switzerland he's done great.

I know a pharmacist who knows MD's, some near the end of their careers. They can't sell their practices.

Then a couple years ago you had some dimwit in the government let the cat out of the bag... They'll just import cheap MD's from Eastern Europe. Odd... Considering that friend of mine went through the German system at great expense to the tax payer. That money invested him, is being exploited by a country that doesn't punish their MD's.
 
radcen said:
Is single-payer in the US inevitable?

Inevitable as in it WILL happen at some point. Within the next 30 years.
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Obamacare was designed to collapse the system, creating a crisis requiring a full government takeover.
 
zimmer said:
ROTFLOL... There is ample evidence over the decades, and lots of stories:

Like the one of a pregnant woman in Alberta who couldn't get the service needed for a mildly complicated birth. Edmonton and Calgary... Million plus populations, nor Red Deer in the middle of the two could help her. What to do? They sent her south of the border to a town of 60,000... Great Falls.

That town did what the great Socialist System of Canada could not accomplish.

Or MP... Liberal politician Stronach. Diagnosed with cancer, she did not wait in line for care in the Canadian system... Nope... She bolted south of the border.


Up 25%.
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That is a rather small number and is for non-emergency medical care which includes things like plastic surgery. I personally do not believe plastic surgery should be a priority in our health system. For the case of the MP if I remember correctly she left to receive a treatment not yet available in Canada because it had not been approved by Health Canada yet. Because America's healthcare system is so infallible.
 
I voted No, it will not happen in the next 30 years.

I think it should happen, although everyone should keep in mind that everyone will have to pay a lot amount of money for it, as well we must, with per capita annual medical expenses now pushing $10,000.

Then there is the usual incoherent Republican intranogence on the matter, going back 50 or more years. Those Republican assholes can't get much of anything else right, why should they get this right???
 
joG said:
That is what the liberals would like people to believe. But you are quite right that the public sector has handled its side of health care about as badly as it could. It is badly structured, does damage and is very wasteful.
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It's been a combination of both the private and public sector, with things like localized monopolies and such, at the request of the private sector.
 
Carjosse said:
There is no evidence that Canadians travel to the US for any medical in any significant amount. Even if they do it usually for entirely elective procedures (e.g. plastic surgery) or newer experimental procedures not yet approved for use in Canada. We have waiting lists for things because care is done on the urgency needed of that care. Someone in more need of the of the procedure will always be put before someone who does not. People who do not need immediate care must wait but those who do need urgent care get it. It is also not like the US does not have waiting lists either, they are just a lot less visible and less transparent. People do not go bankrupt in our system or get saddled with debt and people do get the care they need.
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What do you suppose the Canadian citizenry would do if your government said it would move to a U.S. style healthcare system?
 
Master PO said:
i agree because as the older people die out, those who have been taught government is here to solve their problems will look more and more to government to do that.

this of course will make government bigger and bigger controling more and more

governments rise and fall because of the people in them.
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I hadn't even thought about that, but you're correct. That aspect is going to play huge.
 
People these days love their statism, so yeah, it's inevitable.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
What do you suppose the Canadian citizenry would do if your government said it would move to a U.S. style healthcare system?
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We never would because we can see how much of a disaster it is. They would probably be very angry and the party responsible would not hold government again for a very long time.
 
Carjosse said:
We never would because we can see how much of a disaster it is. They would probably be very angry and the party responsible would not hold government again for a very long time.
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As evidenced by all the countries that have it revolting against politicians that support it...
 
The downside of making single-payer the Platonic ideal of a health system is that every one of these discussions inevitably deteriorates into a protracted debate about Canada.
 
It is if people keep voting for people like Sen. Clinton and Mr. Trump who want us to have a healthcare system similar to England's.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
A system that does not adhere to the fundamental laws of supply and demand and because of its very nature never will, at some point will get so cost prohibitive that it will collapse and thus need very significant reform. Every other modern developed nation has figured this out but us. So yes, at some point something big will happen regardless of which party is in power at the time. Whether its some sort of single payer system or not.... I don't know.

What I will imagine will happen is that Medicare coverage will be extended down to ages 50 or so and there will be a pubic system for those under 50 whose health issues are so significant that they are uninsurable in the private sector. At that point the biggest cost drivers will be subsidized and I would imagine that health coverage for everyone else would be fairly affordable through traditional insurers.

The fact is its not routine care that drives up health costs. That is a tiny, tiny percentage of health spending. Its end of life care, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and dementia that account for the majority of health spending.

Think about it this way. How much do you think your employers health coverage would cost if they only were covering employees under the age of 50? I would be a fraction of what it is now.
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Medicare isn't sufficient now either. It's far from single payer, forcing most to acquire for profit insurance on top of it
 
Fishking said:
It's been a combination of both the private and public sector, with things like localized monopolies and such, at the request of the private sector.
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Well yes. Of course. The private sector need to be structured via regulation as any market does. Poorly structured markets fail to one extent or the other.
 
Having spent many years in Canada I believe that single payer is a bad idea.

Having a government health care safety net is a VERY good idea.

But not allowing competition is a VERY bad idea and it sends costs skyrocketing and reduces the quality of care in certain areas.


In Canada, it;s healthcare system does two things VERY well...if you need to see a GP or you have a legitimate medical emergency. If you live anywhere near a large regional center in Canada..you can see a GP or get great care from an emergency ward for free. But if you need almost anything else...the wait times could be INCREDIBLY long.
And remember, Canada health care does NOT pay for prescriptions unless you are on welfare...and these costs can be extremely high. You have to get separate insurance for that (at least in the provinces I was in).
Also, doctors cannot make nearly as much money in Canada as America. So, many Canadian doctors are trained in Canada at universities at taxpayers expense (largely) and then just bolt to the states for the big bucks.

Government health care should never exclude the possibility of private healthcare...which it pretty much does in Canada.

No, like most things, when the government has a monopoly on something - it usually means massive waste and inefficiency.

Governments should help those that cannot help themselves. But it should not help people that neither need nor want it's help.
 
Carjosse said:
That is a rather small number and is for non-emergency medical care which includes things like plastic surgery. I personally do not believe plastic surgery should be a priority in our health system. For the case of the MP if I remember correctly she left to receive a treatment not yet available in Canada because it had not been approved by Health Canada yet. Because America's healthcare system is so infallible.
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Cancer is hardly a non emergency.

Canadians Increasingly Come to U.S. For Health Care | Best Countries | US News
 
Well, I'm a pessimist, so, probably. I guess the question becomes "who is in charge in the late 2020s, when our structural problems become unsustainable"?
 
DA60 said:
Having spent many years in Canada I believe that single payer is a bad idea.

Having a government health care safety net is a VERY good idea.

But not allowing competition is a VERY bad idea and it sends costs skyrocketing and reduces the quality of care in certain areas.


In Canada, it;s healthcare system does two things VERY well...if you need to see a GP or you have a legitimate medical emergency. If you live anywhere near a large regional center in Canada..you can see a GP or get great care from an emergency ward for free. But if you need almost anything else...the wait times could be INCREDIBLY long.
And remember, Canada health care does NOT pay for prescriptions unless you are on welfare...and these costs can be extremely high. You have to get separate insurance for that (at least in the provinces I was in).
Also, doctors cannot make nearly as much money in Canada as America. So, many Canadian doctors are trained in Canada at universities at taxpayers expense (largely) and then just bolt to the states for the big bucks.

Government health care should never exclude the possibility of private healthcare...which it pretty much does in Canada.

No, like most things, when the government has a monopoly on something - it usually means massive waste and inefficiency.

Governments should help those that cannot help themselves. But it should not help people that neither need nor want it's help.
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Solid Concur. Most of the problems in the US Health System are a result of government interference, not a requirement for it. We can provide health care to our poor (for example, we can provide catastrophic coverage plans to those who have trouble affording them) for far cheaper.
 
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One can only hope this country joins in the commons sense displayed by every other industrialized nation on the planet. So yes, I have hope that it will happen.
 
DA60 said:
Having spent many years in Canada I believe that single payer is a bad idea.

Having a government health care safety net is a VERY good idea.

But not allowing competition is a VERY bad idea and it sends costs skyrocketing and reduces the quality of care in certain areas.


In Canada, it;s healthcare system does two things VERY well...if you need to see a GP or you have a legitimate medical emergency. If you live anywhere near a large regional center in Canada..you can see a GP or get great care from an emergency ward for free. But if you need almost anything else...the wait times could be INCREDIBLY long.
And remember, Canada health care does NOT pay for prescriptions unless you are on welfare...and these costs can be extremely high. You have to get separate insurance for that (at least in the provinces I was in).
Also, doctors cannot make nearly as much money in Canada as America. So, many Canadian doctors are trained in Canada at universities at taxpayers expense (largely) and then just bolt to the states for the big bucks.

Government health care should never exclude the possibility of private healthcare...which it pretty much does in Canada.

No, like most things, when the government has a monopoly on something - it usually means massive waste and inefficiency.

Governments should help those that cannot help themselves. But it should not help people that neither need nor want it's help.
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I pointed out in another thread that the US taxpayer already pays enough in taxes for the US to run a Canadian or French style health program without ever touching private insurance or raising a dime in new taxes.

The problem is that, for all the reasons you point out, single payer systems just aren't an improvement over private insurance for the majority of people so governments are resistant to allowing competition and proving that.
 
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zimmer said:
The question is...

Why do Canadians come to the US for critical services they cannot get in Canada?

Why can't they get them?

Why do they come to the US to get services they can get in Canada?

Why don't Americans go to the Great Kanuckistani System?

Why did the Quebec Supreme Court rule that waiting lists do not constitute "care"?

Why do Canadians have such massive waiting lists for such simple procedures?

Why do Canadians suffer with aged equipment?

Why?

Because it's government run.

Tell me, what government program works well? On time, on budget, or less than predicted, friendly, goes the extra mile? NONE. And you want government taking care of your health? Phew!
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Are you a Canadian? I think not!

You are repeating what the talking heads keep filling American heads with (they have too much at state in a for profit system to risk it going to single player or socialized care)....they have most Americans convinced that other countries have horrendous health care and nothing but horror stories....do you think the US is free of botched surgeries, incompetent doctors, misdiagnosed illness, waiting lines for certain procedures or specialists, etc?
 
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