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Do Thug Lives Matter?

Do Thug Lives Matter?

  • Thug Lives Matter

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • Thug Lives Don't Matter

    Votes: 18 56.3%

  • I Don't Know

    Votes: 3 9.4%
  • Total voters
    32
Glen Contrarian said:
First off, you started your post with a flatly-false (and easily proven-false) accusation. Try again - and this time, try to keep from using the basic logical fallacy of the broad-brush accusation.
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You are wrong, the 14% only represents the ones that are caught. Black gangs have been running drugs into maine for quite a few years. Only a fraction actually get caught.


Police: Bangor was ?lucrative market? for Connecticut gang members ? Bangor ? Bangor Daily News ? BDN Maine

Inside Maine's growing drug epidemic | Local News - WMTW Home


New Hampshire also:

Criminal pipeline: NYC gangs brought drugs into Manchester and were leaving with guns | New Hampshire

Black and Hispanic gangs.
 
Vox said:
BlackLivesMatter has initiated a disingenuous debate.

We all know that black lives matter, but that paradigm cannot be universally applied to the current cases where cold blooded killers are glorified as martyrs (as in the case of those who try to grab the cop's gun).

Is there a separate category for super predators?
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Oh, Jesus...
 
Sparky2 said:
You left too few choices, Vox.

It's not that simple.

To say that one life matters less than another, simply because of a profoundly-low IQ, a propensity for drug-use and violence, sagging trousers, and a limited vocabulary, is simply the political football du jour.

All lives matter.
Some lives belong behind prison walls is all.
;)
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I can't answer the poll because yes, there should be other categories and I agree on a whole that no ones life is more important to anyone else, but with a qualifier. If I'm held hostage and told to make a life or death decision (if I don't they'll shoot me) - shoot the thug whom I just witnessed beat up a citizen or the old lady who can barely walk, you can bet your sweet potato that I'm going to shoot the thug.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You are wrong, the 14% only represents the ones that are caught. Black gangs have been running drugs into maine for quite a few years. Only a fraction actually get caught.


Police: Bangor was ?lucrative market? for Connecticut gang members ? Bangor ? Bangor Daily News ? BDN Maine

Inside Maine's growing drug epidemic | Local News - WMTW Home


New Hampshire also:

Criminal pipeline: NYC gangs brought drugs into Manchester and were leaving with guns | New Hampshire

Black and Hispanic gangs.
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Ah. I see. The actual statistics don't matter. All that matters is what you want to believe...sorta like Trump's campaign manager saying that Trump's going to win because of all the people who don't want to admit they want to vote for Trump.

Problem is, your contention above has a LOT of problems. First off, it would require that the black and Hispanic gangs are somehow sneakier, smarter, and better-organized than the white gangs, and so are much less likely to be caught. This problem is magnified by the fact that the governor has effectively endorsed racial profiling.

Do you see the problem yet? The governor's effectively telling the police to look REAL hard at the blacks because so many are drug dealers...yet even with that, only 14% of those actually arrested for drug dealing are black. Are the blacks so smart and sneaky and well-organized that they're just able to outwit the police much more effectively than the whites are, even when the police are effectively being ordered to look especially at the blacks?

If that weren't bad enough, the governor has access to the same information that the FBI does...but comes to a wildly different conclusion.

Look - the answer's real simple. LePage is racist. Is that really so difficult to accept? He wouldn't be the first governor and sure as heck won't be the last one who's racist.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Why wait three seconds? That could get your family killed...
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I carry a slim, light Kel Tek .32 caliber semi-automatic.
(I don't subscribe to the urban legend regarding 9mm's and .45 caliber's 'stopping power', go figure.)

There is no safety on this particular weapon, and so I carry it with no round chambered.

I calculated three seconds because I need time to pull the weapon, chamber a round, raise the barrel to a line drawn from me to the vicinity of the offender's throat, and then pull the trigger.
Some days I might be able to pull that off in 2.5 seconds, other days, 3.5 seconds.

I sort of averaged it out, truth be told.
;)
 
Thug lives do matter because all lives matter.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah. I see. The actual statistics don't matter. All that matters is what you want to believe...sorta like Trump's campaign manager saying that Trump's going to win because of all the people who don't want to admit they want to vote for Trump.

Problem is, your contention above has a LOT of problems. First off, it would require that the black and Hispanic gangs are somehow sneakier, smarter, and better-organized than the white gangs, and so are much less likely to be caught. This problem is magnified by the fact that the governor has effectively endorsed racial profiling.

Do you see the problem yet? The governor's effectively telling the police to look REAL hard at the blacks because so many are drug dealers...yet even with that, only 14% of those actually arrested for drug dealing are black. Are the blacks so smart and sneaky and well-organized that they're just able to outwit the police much more effectively than the whites are, even when the police are effectively being ordered to look especially at the blacks?

If that weren't bad enough, the governor has access to the same information that the FBI does...but comes to a wildly different conclusion.

Look - the answer's real simple. LePage is racist. Is that really so difficult to accept? He wouldn't be the first governor and sure as heck won't be the last one who's racist.
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Why do the papers show blacks and hispanics?

I still subscribe the the Lewiston Daily Sun and the Portland Press Herald, and I see what goes on. Maine is my home state.

I see as many people of color charged with distributing as I do whites. Pretty extreme numbers considering that the State is lily white to begin with.

Keep on with your assumptions though................they are at least............ entertaining.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
First off, you started your post with a flatly-false (and easily proven-false) accusation. Try again - and this time, try to keep from using the basic logical fallacy of the broad-brush accusation.
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And the second part I responded to you failed to dispute.

Let me clarify for you, first black people in Maine contribute 1% of the population, you claim they contribute only 14% of those arrested in Maine. That tells me that black crime contributes many more than their population should. In other words black crime in Maine is extremely higher than the rest of the population.


Population By Races in Maine

Race Population % of Total
Total Population 1,328,361 100%
White 1,264,971 95%
Two or More Races 20,941 1%
Hispanic or Latino 16,935 1
Black or African American 15,707 1%
Asian 13,571 1%
American Indian 8,568 Below 1%
Some Other Race 4,261 Below 1%
Three or more races 1,207 Below 1%
Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander 342 Below 1%
Native Hawaiian 115 Below 1%

https://suburbanstats.org/population...-live-in-maine

What am I missing here?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Really? From the Portland (Maine) Press Herald:

LePage returned to the theme of race Wednesday night at a town hall meeting in North Berwick, where he said that he has compiled a three-ring binder of photos of drug dealers arrested since January, and that more than 90 percent are black or Hispanic.

“There are a whole lot of white girls, too, a whole lot of white girls,” LePage said. “In fact, in almost every single picture is a white Maine girl in the picture.”

The ACLU of Maine said this week that statistics show white people are more likely to sell drugs than black people.

“According to the governor, Maine police are nine times more likely to arrest people of color for selling drugs than white people, even though we know white people are just as likely to commit drug offenses. This alarming disparity in arrests raises significant concerns that Maine law enforcement is participating in unconstitutional racial profiling,” said the ACLU’s Maine executive director, Alison Beyea, said in a prepared statement.

According to the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Service, 1,211 people in Maine were arrested on charges of drug sales or manufacturing in 2014. Of them, 170 – 14.1 percent – were black, and almost all the rest were white, the service said.

So why is it that the freaking FBI says it's 14.1%...but LePage says it's 90%? I suppose you're going to say that the governor knows better than the FBI too, hm? Or are you going to claim that the percentage miraculously jumped from 14.1% to 90% in less than 18 months?

Or maybe, just maybe we should pay attention to the fact that he's pointing out white girls, which was an apparent reference to what he said earlier this year:

Earlier this year, LePage said that drug dealers with nicknames like "D-Money, Smoothie, and Shifty" come to Maine to sell drugs and "half the time they impregnate a young, white girl before they leave."

The guy's racist. He doesn't care about actual statistics - he only wants to believe what he wants to believe. And if you're going to take his word over the FBI's, then apparently you want to ignore the hard-and-fast numbers, too.
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DUH.

You can't seem to comprehend that he's talking about this year and the FBI is talking about 2014.

And you missed the part about Hispanics.

Try to keep up.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Y'know, I was a racist for most of my early life - I know racist dog-whistles when I hear them, for I've used them way too many times myself. What you're doing is the "Bart Simpson" excuse: "I didn't do it, nobody saw me, nobody can prove anything"...when we all know doggone well that he did do it.

The sad part is a whole lot of people out there use the same excuse you just did, knowing doggone well that they did mean blacks, but have somehow convinced themselves that either only like-minded people would really know what they're saying, or that those on the other side are somehow too ignorant to know the dog-whistle for what it is...or both.

Save your excuses for someone stupid enough to believe them...say, perhaps, those individuals who think that such dog-whistles aren't even a little bit racist.
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If you can't see the difference between "thug" and "black," there's no point in talking to you.

You seem to have a need to call good people racists.

Maybe that's fun for you, but it's silly and impertinent.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
This is about one of the most despicable threads I've yet to see. Y'all look at the relative very few who do something very wrong, and somehow impute that upon the whole - a grand case of the broad-brush logical fallacy.

It's just like with Maine Gov. LePage - he's so eager to show a binder full of black drug dealers...but he apparently hasn't realized that not only do blacks comprise only 14% of those arrested in Maine for drug-dealing, but also that blacks are generally LESS likely to deal drugs than whites. But little things like facts and reality don't matter - all that seems to matter is perpetuating the racism in order to keep the nonwhites down.
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When you try and make a point but fail, due to a lack of understanding of property statistical analysis. Blacks make up 1.2% of the population of Maine. That's about a 1,300% higher rate in proportion to their demographics. I don't know what point was trying to be made by the governor, though. It's not like the government should discriminate or anything because of those rates.
 
Vox said:
BlackLivesMatter has initiated a disingenuous debate.

We all know that black lives matter, but that paradigm cannot be universally applied to the current cases where cold blooded killers are glorified as martyrs (as in the case of those who try to grab the cop's gun).

Is there a separate category for super predators?
Click to expand...

I voted that that do matter. Yes, there may be circumstances where you have to kill another human but all loss of life is saddening. No one else grows up wearing someone else's shoes. I believe there is the potential for great evil or good in all of us.
 
A leading nonsensical poll IMHO because it does not really give any reasonable option to answer. Yes, all lives matter but as not all lives are equally endangered from just about every side, then yes, black lives matter because sadly when black people are gunned down by the police when they are not guilty of anything these officers are usually not punished. So from that point of view black lives matter.

Because just because someone is black, or even when someone is a "thug", as long as they do not endanger the police officers than even their lives matter to the fullest. It is not the duty of the police to be judge, jury and executioner of "thugs".
 
Peter King said:
A leading nonsensical poll IMHO because it does not really give any reasonable option to answer. Yes, all lives matter but as not all lives are equally endangered from just about every side, then yes, black lives matter because sadly when black people are gunned down by the police when they are not guilty of anything these officers are usually not punished. So from that point of view black lives matter.

Because just because someone is black, or even when someone is a "thug", as long as they do not endanger the police officers than even their lives matter to the fullest. It is not the duty of the police to be judge, jury and executioner of "thugs".
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Maybe you're taking it too literally and in a perfectionist mode.

Of course all lives matter to SOMEBODY. Matter to the thug himself, if nobody else. But we need to go beyond opinion.

What I'm asking is if thugs lives matter objectively to society in the greater scheme of things.

Is it OK (even desirable and commendable) to kill (or incarcerate forever) thugs who endanger the lives of good people thus saving the lives of those good people?

I say when it comes to thugs (Hillary's "Super Predators) we are all better off with them dead or in prison forever.

What that actually means is that their deaths matter.

A lot.
 
Fishking said:
When you try and make a point but fail, due to a lack of understanding of property statistical analysis. Blacks make up 1.2% of the population of Maine. That's about a 1,300% higher rate in proportion to their demographics. I don't know what point was trying to be made by the governor, though. It's not like the government should discriminate or anything because of those rates.
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The problem with your point is that LePage had already for all practical purposes instituted racial profiling...which means that blacks were targeted for closer and stricter enforcement, thereby skewing the overall results.
 
Vox said:
If you can't see the difference between "thug" and "black," there's no point in talking to you.

You seem to have a need to call good people racists.

Maybe that's fun for you, but it's silly and impertinent.
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So I was right. Just like I postulated, you're claiming that the percentage miraculously jumped from 14.1% to 90% in less than 18 months.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Why do the papers show blacks and hispanics?

I still subscribe the the Lewiston Daily Sun and the Portland Press Herald, and I see what goes on. Maine is my home state.

I see as many people of color charged with distributing as I do whites. Pretty extreme numbers considering that the State is lily white to begin with.

Keep on with your assumptions though................they are at least............ entertaining.
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Then you should know what the Portland Press Herald editorial board posted just day before yesterday:

Dear America: Maine here. Please forgive us – we made a terrible mistake. We managed to elect and re-elect a governor who is unfit for high office.

He has a gruff exterior and blunt way of talking that some of us find refreshing, but he has shown again and again that he governs by grudge, and uses his power to beat up on people who cannot fight back.

Gov. LePage continues to repeat the myth of black criminality to justify the toxic racial attitude that is keeping people from moving to and investing in Maine.

You probably heard about the latest episode. He was asked about the toxic racial environment that he created in the state with insensitive statements about people of color. The questioner, an entrepreneur from New York, wondered how he could ever bring a business here.

This should have been an easy one for the governor: Maine is a state where more people hit retirement age than graduate from high school, and our traditional industries are shedding jobs. We desperately need new businesses and young people – of all races – who would be willing to move here to work.

The question was an opportunity for the governor to undo some of the damage that he has caused by giving members of minority groups around the country the impression that Maine is a white state where no one else is welcome.

Instead, the governor repeated one of his worst libels: That Maine’s drug crisis is the fault of black and brown transient thugs who come here not only to sell their poison but also to take advantage of “white Maine women.” It’s a matter of fact that heroin comes to Maine from other states – they don’t produce it here – but the governor is adamant about identifying the drug runners by race, leaving it to his audience to fill in the blanks of why that might matter.

This was not a slip of the tongue. He has said the same thing before, denied saying it, and then said it again before the latest incident. This time, he offered it as proof that the racial divide in Maine was not his fault – that it was the fault of black and Hispanic criminals that he keeps track of in a three-ring binder on his desk.

LePage knows that his words are widely understood to mean that he thinks that the color of their skin makes some people more likely to commit crimes. Rather than clarify or withdraw those statements, he repeats them.

Seems I'm not the only one who knows Gov. LePage is a racist. What's frustrating, though, is the great number of conservatives who are willing to ignore his obvious racism, apparently just because he's got an (R) behind his name. Or at least that's a better thing to assume than to raise the possibility that a whole lot of Republicans out there are racist, and that he's just giving voice to what they already believe.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
So I was right. Just like I postulated, you're claiming that the percentage miraculously jumped from 14.1% to 90% in less than 18 months.
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LOL!

He has the pictures to prove it.

Try to get serious and keep up.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The problem with your point is that LePage had already for all practical purposes instituted racial profiling...which means that blacks were targeted for closer and stricter enforcement, thereby skewing the overall results.
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LOL! They were CONVICTED.......not falsely accused.

Try to work harder at keeping up with and posting facts.
 
Vox said:
LOL! They were CONVICTED.......not falsely accused.

Try to work harder at keeping up with and posting facts.
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I didn't say they were falsely accused. If law enforcement concentrates on one demographic than on other demographics, there WILL be more arrests and convictions from that demographic, regardless of what that demographic is. Or is that concept too complex for you?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
I didn't say they were falsely accused. If law enforcement concentrates on one demographic than on other demographics, there WILL be more arrests and convictions from that demographic, regardless of what that demographic is. Or is that concept too complex for you?
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The concept is a stupid "blame the police" method that Liberals often use. Even if they are profiled more than say white people, did they not commit the crimes? Should we simply let some of them go because they have higher arrest rates than other races? Should we stop going after them because the rates that we go after them are higher than other races? Basically, you are implying that its not fair they got arrested for committing a crime, because they are black.
 
Vox said:
BlackLivesMatter has initiated a disingenuous debate.

We all know that black lives matter, but that paradigm cannot be universally applied to the current cases where cold blooded killers are glorified as martyrs (as in the case of those who try to grab the cop's gun).

Is there a separate category for super predators?
Click to expand...

BLM is an us against them battle that makes no sense to anyone not part of "us." IMo, it's silly to ignore the crime in your neighborhood and whine about cops instead of trying to root out the criminals. But, I'm white. So, I probably have no idea what these people are thinking.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Yep! Toss out the white pictures and keep the black pictures, and whaddaya know? A binder full of black pictures!

But I guess this concept is also too complex for you.
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Forget it. You're clearly just trolling and not worth my time.
 
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